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Sorry I haven't written to you in awhile, I know you've missed hearing from me. You know how much I love you.
I just wanted to say hi and keep this short and sweet. I know you are busy watching YouTube videos or whatever you do in the Bloomington Ivy Tower. I was thinking the other day - yes, I know a scary thought. But the common sense fairy dropped by my brain and this thought appeared...
You say one reason why your so-called state tournament can't be seeded better is because of travel distances. But did you know on Wednesday that Carmel traveled to Marian Catholic to play a conference game?
Yes, that's 66.83 miles (thanks Mapquest)...ONE WAY on a school night. They've been doing this for years. I'm willing to bet the schools in the Naperville Sectional would be willing to travel, so you don't have the state's best teams knocking one another out in your regional finals.
Well, just let me know your thoughts. Can't wait to hear from you.
Hugs and kisses,
TROST
- Joe Trost
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Joe,
Great points as always! Look at some of these sectionals and regionals... what a shame!!! How about looking at the now-closing Driscoll school's conference where school can travel between an hour to two hours for conference games... Woodstock Marian all the way to Aurora and such... how about the Fox Valley and going from Woodstock to Grayslake!!!??? It just doesn't make sense, and I still do not get the pre-determined regional format. I understand it for the Southern schools, but why does Rockford and Barrington have pre-determined regionals at the Jacobs Sectional??? Another reason why a geographic tournament doesn't help the IHSA and they need to follow your truly seeded concept of the showdown!!!
WE in central Illinois routinely travel to Matoon(2hours).Danville(1.75 hours)for conferance games. We have gone to Quad Ciities twice in a week for regional games which is a 2 hour minium drive We have gone to Quincy for Sectionals (3 hours) We have gone to Edwardsville for Sectional (2.25 hours) Last fall we went to Joliet for a regional and there was a a regional in town. Our girls program will go to the Quads for regionals.
Oh to be a fly on the wall of the IHSA HQ today with them furiously tabulating seeds and mapquesting everything to make sure it is fair.
Europe has worked out a lot of the kinks of the soccer scheduling system. Let's agree that Regionals need to be, well, regional in nature. Yet, if the Champions League only took one EPL team, it would be a sham like the Club World Cup and no one would care.
Locally, playing the Bolingbrook Sectional out until only one team remains is crazy.
Play the sectional final. Then resume elimination. Then you can have the "Bolingbrook #2" play the "Barrington #1" and the "Bolingbrook #1" plays the "Lisle #2" or whatever.
You are essentially playing the old "Super Sectional" game and then would have the old 8-team "State Tournament."
Barrington tournament demonstrated what a lack of "equity" there is in regional/sectional format. Honegah got beat 7-0, 7-0, 6-0 in pool play but are the top seed in their regional. Why should a team like this get a pass into a sectional?
The defending two time stae champion Waubonsie Valley Warriors are a 4(!!) seed in the Bolingbrook sectional! Hinsdale Central - who lost to Waubonsie (and York!)- is a 1 seed - with virtually no competition in their sectional and they play their regional (toughest game - Hinsdale South!)at home. (The OPRF regional is a joke.) In the Plainfield North Regional, DGN - who is undefeated since losing to Benet in the opening game but is a 9 seed - has to beat Plainfield North (at home) just to get to play Neuqua Valley and, if the Trojans win that game, gets Waubonsie (probably) in the next game! I am prety sure tht DGN would be happy to travel to Oak Park - which is closer! This is so clearly unfair year after year it cannot just be geography. What connections do the seeding members have to area high schools??
Michael F. -
Coaches seed all the teams in their sectional. Each coach submits a season summary, which allows the all coaches in the sectional to review everyone's season. Each coach then seeds all the teams (EXCEPT THEIR OWN) and then it's just pure math. The team with the lowest average is the top seed, the second lowest average = 2nd seed, etc. The team with the highest average ends up being the last seed. The IHSA then sets up the regional and sectional games by matching up the seeds.
As far as game location and placement into each regional, that is done based off the seeds. Schools can submit a request to host a regional and/or sectional game(s). The top 4 seeds each go to a regional and then seeds 5-8 go to a regional (#1 & #8 in the same regional, #2 & #7 in the same regional, #3 & #6 together, and #4 & #5 together). The other teams are filled in accordingly. The only way this changes is if the seeds do not allow this to happen. That is, the IHSA will not send two top 4 teams to the same regional (nor will the send two 5-8 seeded teams to the same regional). So, in theory, a #3 seed could have face a #8 seed instead of a #6 if a the host schools are seeded 1,2,4,8. In this example the IHSA would pair the regionals as such: 1&7, 2&6, 3&8, 4&5.
That is very interesting. Thanks for the information. But the real issue (problem) is how the schools are assigned to the sectionals which I believe is done by the IHSA - purportedly based on geographic considerations. The seeding and regional/sectional pairings don't mean that much once you have put a disproportionate number of the area's elite teams into the same sectional. Neuqua Valley, Naperville North and Central, Waubonsie Valley, WWS, Benet, Plainfield North all in the same sectional while other sectional have one or maybe two top teams guarantees that weaker teams get to state. No other sectional can compare. Joe says the IHSA is in an ivory tower in Bloomington but I would like to know what the connections are between the "deciders" and specific high schools. Or, are they just too lazy to try to balance it out sincce this is an annual problem?
There are actually two issues here. Micheal F is correct on issue one which is HOW teams are assigned to Sectionals. See the Bolingbrook sectional for exhibit 1 on this issue. There are likely others.
Issue 2 is illustrated in the Jacobs Sectional where the CL South Reg has 5 of the sectionals top 8 teams ALL in the same Regional. I know, who cares about the Fox Valley conference, right? Perhaps Javert needs to recheck the facts because there is no way this Sectional was seeded as stated. Any of the 5 CL South Regional teams would be the #1 seed in the Harlem regional and most would have been a #1 or 2 in the Boylan Regional. Additionally, either Cary Grove or Huntley would have been a #1 seed any ANY of the regionals in the Bartlett Sectional except the one with SC North. And please don't say it is because of distance because two teams from the Fox Valley were sent to Harlem - the worst two. Go figure.
One solution to consider is simply seeding all teams in each super-sectional rather than just the sectional and doing this the same for ALL 4 super-sectionals regardless of distance. This would better address both issues above. IF the concern in the non-metro area's is travel/distance, then give each of the top 8 seeds their own region, divide up the 9-16 teams and then fill in the rest based on distance and common sense.
This would have placed the Bolingbrook and St. Ignatius Sectionals into a single seeded pool and the top top 8 teams each would be assigned to a separate regional. Then teams 9 - 16 are the #2 seeds, teams 17 - 24 the #3 seeds, etc.
Hinsdale Central may still have been a #1 seed in their regional, but perhaps only a #7 or 8 seed in the overall super-sectional.
Likewise, 3 or 4 of the five teams in the CL South regional (C. Grove, Huntley, CL South & P.Ridge) and the others #2 seeds.
Michael F -
Why don't we just give the state title to one of the teams from the Bolingbrook sectional now? I mean, really, don't worry about the Libertyville sectional who has Lake Forest, GBS, Stevenson, & Fremd; that's such an easy sectional. Another blow-off sectional? The Evanston one with New Trier, Loyola, Evanston, and Maine South. Nobody tell the Jacobs sectional (Huntley, Barrington, Lake Zurich, Boylan) that they're not supposed to win state, as they will also lose to the teams from the Bolingbrook sectional.
This is also assuming the other strong teams will not make it out of their super-sectional. St. Charles North, Hinsdale Central, St. Ignatius, H-F, are weak teams and wouldn't challenge the teams from the Bolingbrook sectional? Admitedly, I do not know anything about the teams from the Normal sectional.
As a high school coach (not at any of the schools mentioned) I find it insulting to read that the other sectionals only have one or two top schools. Do you really think the soccer is that weak in the state of Illinois that the Bolingbrook sectional is the be-all, end-all?
Don't get me wrong, I agree that the Bolingbrook sectional is most certainly tough, but to anoint that sectional as the second coming so clearly above every other sectional by saying that the other sectionals only have one or two tough teams is wrong.
FV Soccer -
For clarification purposes, I was only referring to how the IHSA seeds an entire sectional. I do not have any knowledge as to how the process works when individual regionals are seeded within a sectional, a la the Jacobs sectional and Normal sectional.
Javert -
I hear you and I suspected that was the case. However, the fact that not all sectionals are seeded the same way is evident, which then creates situations like the Jacobs Sectional where one Regional is loaded and another has no real quality teams.