Reporting with Natasha Korecki
It's the "phrase heard 'round the world," Rod Blagojevich testifies.
But when his lawyer Aaron Goldstein asks his client what he meant in the 'effin' golden' tape, a usually chatty Blagojevich hesitates.
"I've got this thing and it's f***in' golden, and I'm just not giving it up for f***in' nothing," Blagojevich says in the tape.
"Well, that's the, that's, uh, the Senate seat," Blagojevich stumbles. "I was saying that this opportunity is effin' golden and that's what I was saying, and I don't want to give it up for nothing, so we had these discussions."
Goldstein presses him: what did he mean?
"I'm afraid to answer this," Blagojevich responds. "I'd like to answer it. I'm not sure how to answer it."
Goldstein tells him to do his best.
"In my mind, I didn't know," Blagojevich said. "I had no idea, other than all these different ideas that we were throwing around, and I was trying to figure out what, if anything, could possibly be part of a deal for the Senate seat. And I didn't know and that's why I was talking about it."