A pair of two-time Pro Bowl players in their prime will become free agents, and they could fill huge needs for the Bears.
But will the Bears make another big splash, like they did with Julius Peppers two years ago?
One thing is clear: the Bears could do just that, with more than $30 million in space, if the salary cap doesn't change from the 2011 season.
New Bears general manager Phil Emery has been on record as saying he wants to build through the draft, but he didn't exclude a foray into free agency. And this year, it's a buyer's market.
While the Bears didn't make the playoffs, they could be an appealing team to prospective free agents for a number of reasons.
Typically, teams don't let players like Jackson and Williams become free agents. But, with whopping one-year salaries ($13.7 million for Jackson and $22 million for Williams), the San Diego Chargers and Houston Texans just couldn't place the franchise tag on them.
"We did not like the franchise number; never did," Chargers general manager A.J. Smith said, according to the team's website. "Vincent will enter the market, and we will see what happens. We would like to have him continue on with us, but other teams now will enter the picture."
Jackson has had some off the field issues. But he started all 16 games last season, catching 60 passes for 1,106 yards and nine touchdowns. He not only possesses excellent speed, the 6 foot 5 receiver also knows how to use his size to his advantage. If the price tag gets above $10 million per year, will the Bears want to invest that much in Jackson?
Williams, meanwhile, has 53 sacks in six NFL seasons.
The thought of pairing Williams and Julius Peppers together would be downright scary. Like Peppers, he's an asset as a rusher and run defender. Throw in Henry Melton and Stephen Paea, and the Bears would have quite a fearsome foursome up front.
While they could afford both, the Bears probably would only land one, then bargain shop in a free-agent pool that has plenty of quality players.
Get both V. Jackson and super Mario and let Emery do his thing in the draft, future left tackle WR DE etc.
Pay what ever it takes to sign both V. Jackson and Super Mario and Mr. Emery can do his thing or make his mark in the draft LT WR DE M LB etc, etc.
Dream on Bears fans... Know way you land them both.. Maybe Vjax.. Maybe....
If the New York Giants proved one thing this season, its this, you can win a title with a great front four. If Chicago can land Mario Williams, they probably have one of the leagues, if not the, best front fours in all of pro football. Julius Peppers and Mario Williams would be the best set of ends in all of pro football, I can pretty well guarantee that. Right now the Lions have the best front four in the NFC north, if Chicago can land Mario Williams, Chicago could say that with Peppers, Melton and super Mario. I never thought super Mario would hit the open market, Chicago has to sign him. If we learned one thing from Julius Peppers, the defensive end position is the key position to Chicago's scheme, throw in Williams and you have a young DE that will be around for awhile to make things happen for the Bears.
I like the thought of getting super Mario over drafting an end for another reason, Williams is NFL proven. To me, no one really stands out in this years draft as far as the defensive end position goes. You got Illinois Whitney Mercilus, who is intriguing, and he could very well be the real deal, but again, Mario Williams has already proved what he can do in the NFL. I say sign Mario Williams and draft a receiver, its a pretty deep receiver class and the thought of pairing super Mario with J-Pep, wow! GO BEARS!!
In the "end", a Williams and Peppers pairing would be worth every penny. Mainly because, the Chicago Bears' pass rush will hide much of the mediocrity in the Bears' secondary. Therefore, a Mario Williams signing allows the Bears' the luxury of not having to spend more money on a free agent corner (dream: Vincent Jackson here). Keep in mind, with a tremendously productive Bears' defensive front in 85', only Buddy Ryan and Michael Richardson shared in the knowledge of how bad the Bears' were in need of a safety. And if the opposing teams knew, there was not much they could do about it, with their QB running for his life or on the ground, pretty much on every play. It's about the pass rush stupid!
Awesome Idea! I say sign Super Mario first & maybe, this will intrigue VJAX to also sign with the Bears. However, if we can't sign both, we can always draft a receiver but with a front four like Williams, Melton, Paea & Peppers, we could afford to have some what of a "weak" secondary because we still have our core in Urlacher, Briggs & Tillman. We would be immediate SuperBowl Contenders and we'll still have enough cap room left over to offer Forte a Long Term Deal. Let's Do It!!! "BEAR DOWN"
If we were to sign Williams, that would mean no Idonije, and probably no Okoye coming back either. While I love the idea of two physical freaks on the edges, we still need someone behind them in the rotation, as they can't play every down. We would still need a defensive end for the rotation, and we would need a 4th DT, unless they think Jordan Miller is good enough to play.
That also means no V-Jax. We would be looking at guys like Meachem and Garcon instead of a true #1. Granted, we would hope for Floyd, or move back for Sanu or Hill to get that potential split end, but that's rolling the dice. San Diego is going to try and make it so there is no V-Jax anyway, but there is a shot he hits the market.
If we can restructure Peppers' deal, and extend Urlacher to relieve some short term cap dollars, and trade Briggs, we can make it work and still go after a player like Jackson. But that would be it for free agency, and I am not convinced we can survive with Webb and Louis playing on the line again. We have to improve the line on both sides of the ball, and Mario makes for a great splash, but we have to start building around Cutler as well. Urlacher, Briggs, and Peppers are only a few years from the end, and Cutler is more like 10 years from the end. We keep building a defense to win now, instead of trying to set ourselves up to win for a decade.
A young DE will get it done if we improve the offense by 7-10 points per game with a couple of linemen, a couple of wide receivers, and some improvement in the tight end group (Adams I think will be solid as a second or third TE, and we need to bring back Davis, not draft another guy). That way, we can bring back Okoye, Graham, and Steltz (can't believe I am saying that, but he is decent when he plays, and is a solid special teams player),and maybe have room to sign a Jared Gaither or Nicks for the OL, and go get a receiver in free agency.
Mario is the ideal direction to go, but only if you don't have the balance of your cap room already on the defensive side of the ball. Between Peppers and Urlacher, we have almost 20% of the cap tied up. Add in Tillman and Briggs, and that's nearly $30 million this year, basically 25% of the cap, in 4 guys. Add in a Mario Williams, who will be looking for Peppers money, and that's $41-45 million, which is almost 38% of the cap. Maybe most teams are slanted this way like the Bears are, but it makes it tough when they are so thin and weak at so many positions to really compete every year. We have nothing at receiver, nothing on the OL except for Carimi, no backup QB, no depth at LB, a terrible group at CB, and a revolving door at safety. We can't go into next year with a great DE group, and still having many of the same holes on the team.
I will applaud them if they sign Mario, because it means they are going all in this year, but this means the rebuilding will be that much more dramatic in 2013 when they fall short. And with this current roster, unless we strike gold in the draft on several of our picks, we will fall short of the Super Bowl. No next year, Urlacher will not be re-signed, Peppers will likely be released (contract gives us an out I believe next year without a huge cap hit), Briggs will be gone, Tillman will be let go, and the entire thing would be blown up for a few years with a new coaching staff and an overhaul of the organization with Emery leading the charge. Granted, I think we need it at some point, but I would rather a competitive team that is re-working its roster than 2-3 years of disaster while we rebuild.
I would put all effort into signing Mario Williams. Pass rushing defensive ends are more likely to carry production to their new teams. There are many more examples of wide receivers going bust after signing with a new team than bust defensive ends. Considering Philip Rivers threw for 4,600 yards, Jackson was pretty average.
Get Mario and Honestly we can get meachem at WR for a bargin price. Make a play for nicks at Guard. Draft Floyd at WR in the 1st Round the draft a tackle or TE in the second. CB and LB in the third and we are set.
Hey Joe Fettuccine......you can forget about destroying our defense, for the sake of a receiver, what are you a Green Bay Packer fan? Here are two examples....Welker + Cruz , did anyone ever hear of those two before? You would have to be drunk out of your mind to pass up on Mario Williams. If the Bears did get Williams the pressure they would be putting on QB's would be phenominal! Now add the Backers of Urlacher and Briggs, then the corners and safeties will have a great time picking off those lame duck passes, due to the tremendous rush we would have. Just as the Bears did in getting Peppers, this Williams deal would be a steal. The only way we would lose Idonije or Okoye, is through your lame thought process of overpaying for WR talent. There are going to be receivers out there who Emery can find in the draft, or a free agent WR who can be had for much less than V.Jax will demand. Also, the first draft pick should be used to help protect Cutler by strengthening the O line.
Why do you automatically say that if the Bears sign Williams you applaud them, then say they will fall short this year? Don't forget Joe Fettuccine, the Giants made it past the Packers as a wild card team and won the Super Bowl with an awesome defensive line!
Sorry dude, but you couldn't be more wrong!
Get Williams, draft Floyd. It's easy.
I hope the Bears don't overcomplicate this. When you have the chance to sign the best pass rusher in the NFL, that happens to be in his mid 20's, you do it. If you prioritize VJ, you're trying to out score high-powered offenses like Green Bay and Detroit. VJ isn't good enough to win that way. When you add Mario to Peppers, those offenses aren't high-powered any more. There will not be production from a TE against our defense all year long. There will be no time for deep plays to develop. Running Backs will be eliminated from the passing game. Suddenly, a moderate offense led by Cutler and Forte along with B level upgrades at WR through the draft and free agency is enough to win. Bottom line, no player in free agency nor the draft can improve the Bears and help them compete better in their division more than Mario Williams. It's not even close. I hope to see him in Blue and Orange soon.
Mario and the pass rush, go get him, it is a no brainer. That one move alone would solidify the D, bringing it to a top 5 level, most likely with a large increase in pressures and sacks.
First pick in the draft Left Offensive Tackle if Martin the Stanford tackle is still available and pick up wr help in 2nd or 3rd round. The Bears can move the ball if Cutler has time.
I think the Bears WILL get one of these guys.
Maybe Colston as a consolation. I hear that V-Jax wants to play with Cutler - all the Bears need to do is get "in the ball park" with a salary.
No idea on Mario, but man, he would be a BEAST along side peppers.
I agree with others on the board. There's almost no way the Bears can sign both of these guys and Matt Forte.
Here are my odds with no scientific analysis whatsoever:
Matt Forte signing with the Bears: 90%
V-Jax signing with the Bears: 60%
Mario Williams signing with the Bears: 25%
Colston signing with the Bears: 50% (only if V-Jax signs elsewhere)
Terrel Owens signing with the Bears: 10%
Late Biktches
I agree with EstevenJ
The Bears should sign Super Mario, and then trade him, peppers and there first round pick for Kyle vanden Bosh. He is the BEST EVER!!!
I was personally pancaked by KVB more than 10 times last season. I even made eggs afterward.
Then we did situps together.
I am guessing that the "other" gearhead boy {I saw how you did it, Mikey..you put a space there} has way too much time on his hands. {Might not all hes got on his hands}.
As for Mario Williams. If you want Peppers' like numbers as far as output, then go ahead and do it. Why is it that the guys who look like greek gods, sometimes play like the fat kid on a Pop Warner team. And the guys like Jared Allen just have a motor that doesn't stop. I would rather see the Bears sign Jackson, Maybe look at the G from NO, and use their first round pick on a DE. If Ingram slips to say 15th or so, you could move up a slot or two to get him. But I am guessing that all of this talk about either drafting a DE or bringing in Williams has all but said that the Bears have given up on Wooten. Imagine that.
If you were to land both WIlliams and Jackson or Colston, then you might be able to trade out of 19 down a few slots and pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd and have 5 picks in the first three rounds. If you traded out, you could go:
1st Round: G
2nd round: DE or WR
2nd round: what ever you didnt get with first 2nd rounder {provided you make the trade,}
3rd round: LB
3rd round: C
If the Bears could hit on 3 or 4 of their draft picks this year along with 2 big names in FA, they could go a long way in catching up with both the packers and lions.
Auggie,
It's simple math. Forte is counting 7.7 mil against the cap with the franchise tender. That puts us to about $20 million below the cap today. Mario will cost between $12-15 million per year, because he is younger than Peppers, and is going to be a hot commodity on the market. So let's say $12, just for the sake of argument. That leaves us 8 mil below the cap to re-sign the free agents we have, and to sign our draft picks. Izzy made $2.4mil in 2011, so we would have to pay that plus a little more to bring him back, and Okoye only made $1.4 mil. So let's assume that is $4 mil between the two of them. That leaves only 4 mil for the 8 draft picks, and doesn't include Graham, Kellen Davis, Steltz, or any other receivers we need to get to a serviceable 53 players, and it simply can't be done financially.
We go all in on Mario, we have to ignore a bunch of other needs, and get by with minimum salary players at key positions. So when I say we will fall short, it is because we won't have any great weapons for Cutler (a rookie WR is not a sure-fire recipe for success by any stretch, nor is the 3rd or 4th best OT in the draft if we use our 19 pick on Martin from Stanford). We won't have a rotation on the inside or the outside of the DL. We will have 2 fantastic DEs, 2 great LBs, and nothing behind them in the secondary to make those interceptions you talk about.
Drunk out of my mind to say we shouldn't sign Mario Williams? I would say I am the one who isn't drinking. I would love to see them sign him, but it would be for a 1 year run by Lovie to win the Super Bowl, and they aren't one player away from being able to do that. By my count, and by the current guys under contract, we are at least 6 starters away from being a contender, and that's not counting positions where we could badly use an upgrade, like left guard, and strong safety. I agree Cutler can make average receivers better, but a rookie may not be able to get up to speed quickly enough to make an impact. Our best receiver on the roster, Earl Bennett, couldn't get on the field as a rookie due to learning the offense, and he graduated from Vanderbilt, which is a pretty good school...
While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I think it is misplaced, like most who get emotional about these decisions. If they sign Mario, I will be excited too, but I am also aware of what that means to the team going forward.
Joe I don't think Auggie is drinking anything, I think he's smokin something. You are correct, if and that is a big IF the bears were 1 DE(M Williams) away from dominating for years then yes you go get him. The bears have way to many holes to fill over the next 3 years. I don't know about anyone else but I want the bears to win long term, not 1 year here 1 year there. It's about time they are mentioned with the Pats and Steelers.
Joe, while yes they are 30 m under the cap ur analysis forgets they can lower the cap numbers for peppers, Urlacher and cutler through extensions...plus super marios deal is going to be a monster long term 6, 7 or 8 yr deal with a high amount say 40 to 45 m maybe even 50 m guaranteed...so u can easily strucure that to have a low cap number this yr...my point is that they could get super Mario, colston for maybe 7m (I don't think vjax is worth more than 10 though I am sure he gets 12) plus the other items u mentioned too.... Bears should go all in for this year...plus Mario is so young you get a stud de for the next 6-7 years... Bears should gamble and grab hill in the first round too...he'll just have run 9 routes all day and blow the top off the d...the kid can catch and hopefully is strong enough to get off press...Bears are going to be tough this year..
Dabearsk,
I actually mentioned restructuring Peppers and extending Urlacher in my first post. That would help, but with Urlacher, it will be all new money, since he is on the last year of his deal, and Peppers might not get us as good of a relief under the cap as you might think. He only counts 11.8 against the cap this year, but in the remaining years on his deal, his cap charge jumps to 15.3, 16.3, and 18.3 mil. So we are about as well-positioned as we can be on his deal for this year.
Cutler's numbers aren't that bad, and any extension we would do with him would be adversely affected by the escalation of contracts for QBs, which would be substantially higher than his 9.5 and 10.5 cap numbers for this year and next year.
They might be able to swing it, but it will not be easy, and we still won't have fixed our holes on the OL, DL, LB, and secondary unless we nail all of our draft picks. No one gets them all right. That would mean a lot of rookie free agents on the roster again.
Now if they move Briggs, and do something with Tillman's contract, we might have some options left, but the odds of them making changes on all of those contracts is pretty unlikely.
Sean, can the Bears rescind the franchise tag on Matt Forte? What are the rules regarding it?
It is now very clear that the Bears have blundered by tagging Forte. They have crippled their ability to sign Free Agents that are of much greater need to the team.
They should have traded him last season. And having failed that, they should have just let him leave as a Free Agent so we wouldn't be stuck now.
The Shanahan Offense being installed by Jeremy Bates and Jay Cutler does not need a "star" RB. Any average low paid RB will do just fine.
It is infuriating to see the sacrifices the Bears are having to make to accommodate the Forte tag.
This is just another in a long line of blunders that hopefully will make this the last year of Lovie's stay in Chicago. Wasn't last year's collapse enough? I'd fire him today. And when he goes, his blundering handpicked GM Emery needs to go too.
When the Head Coach and GM can't understand how their new Offense is going to work before going into Free Agency and the draft to provide players for that Offense, it is an inexcusable situation.
This is FOOTBALL 101 and they have FLUNKED OUT.
Hiring Mike Martz was Lovie's idea. Martz is gone. And so are the 38 or so other coaches Lovie let go over his reign here. But Lovie's still here???
The buck stops where? And when?
I agree with your analysis ... except for the part ..."catching up with the Lions..."
Dude, the Bears crushed Detroit in the first quarter of their game at Soldier Field last season. The Lions will not repeat their playoff appearance - and arguably have more holes than the Bears. The Lions are respectable, but not as good as the mainstream believes them to be.
Otherwise, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think you're spot on with your take. The Bears really need to hit on 3-4 of their draft picks this year. I don't believe they'll nab more than one big free agent.
Late.
@Get Real:
Where is your data that the Bears are installing the "Shanahan offense?"
You are aware that Mike Tice was a HC and OC in his career ... right? He coached Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Randall Cunninghame, Donte Culpepper, etc.
I do think they'll insert some of Denver's old WC plays for Jay and Jeremy, but HIGHLY DOUBT they will install Mike Shanahan's zone blocking scheme for the OL. For one thing, they don't have the personnel (other than Matt Forte) - who you think they should trade or release!
Do some homework, bud.
I already did my homework. Now you do yours.
Tice has NEVER been an OC before, just like Marinelli was never a DC until he got to the Bears and he had already been a HC in Detroit.
From Wikipedia:
"Tice attended the University of Maryland, College Park where he played quarterback. He played tight end in the National Football League from 1981 to 1995 with the Seattle Seahawks, Washington Redskins and Minnesota Vikings.
Immediately after his retirement, Tice joined the Vikings' coaching staff, serving first as tight ends coach (1996) and offensive line coach (1997–2001). Tice took over head coaching duties on an interim basis for the final game of the 2001 season, replacing Dennis Green, and then was officially named head coach on January 10, 2002. He became the sixth head coach in team history and the first former Viking player to assume the role. He was HC from 2002-2005.
During his tenure of more than four years as the Vikings head coach, he had a regular season record of 32-33-0, while going 1-1 in the playoffs.
From 2006-2008 he was hired as Assistant Head Coach/Tight Ends Coach of Jacksonville by Jack Del Rio, another former Viking.
On January 15, 2010, Tice was hired as Offensive Line coach for the Chicago Bears. On January 6, 2012, the Bears promoted Mike Tice to offensive coordinator, filling the void left by the resignation of Mike Martz."
Scott Linehan, currently the offensive coordinator for the Detroit Lions, served as the offensive coordinator the Minnesota Vikings for three seasons (2002–04).
On becoming Bears OC it was reported: "Tice will be in charge of the running game and will be paired with a passing game assistant, according to Fox's Jay Glazer."
Tribune reporter Dan Pompei has said Tice is thinking of running the Offense along the lines of what Joe Gibbs did with the Washington Redskins, which was a zone blocking scheme.
No matter what you think of the Bears personnel ability to run a zone scheme, the fact is that is what Bates and Tice want to run, in one form or another.
The Bears are already at the bottom ranks of O-line rankings. It can't really get much worse. You can pretty much scrap the whole line and start from fresh and get about the same results. Maybe better.
When Tice was made OC the Bears plainly said he needed a "passing game assistant". Which means Tice is not good at devising a passing game plan. And how a guy who was mainly a TE his whole career becomes a O-line guru mastermind is a bit of a puzzle.
When you read the bios of the Offensive line coaches that Jeremy Bates brought to the Seahawks and Joe Gibbs brought (Joe Bugel), you'll see that in their historical backgrounds within 2 seasons of becoming line coach their teams were leading the league in rushing.They had dramatic improvements due to the coaching.
Bates knew the importance of the O-line in Seattle and hired a good coach in Alex Gibbs but Gibbs retired before the season started probably due to conflict with HC Carroll.
I don't think Tice has ever really been responsible for something like that. He always seemed to have other people helping him. Kind of like how Jerry Angelo seemed to take credit for success at Tampa that was not his. Tice inherited a team loaded with talent with the Vikings and Scott Linehan ran the Offense.
So, if Tice IS a good O-line coach I need to see more proof. He couldn't fix Chris Williams or Omiyale.
And then,what about this new O-line coach? I haven't heard anything about him. What makes him so special?
Why can't we get Alex Gibbs or Joe Bugel to come in for season or spring training to fix this mess? Let them help with making O-line draft picks and setting up the line.
Jeremy Bates' proof of his ability is his role in helping Cutler to his best season ever of over 4,500 yards and 27 TD's. The firing of Bates was one of the main reasons Cutler wanted out of Denver. Cutler was furious over that.
And when Bates went to Seattle he was installing the Denver Offense and Matt Hasselback couldn't run it because he didn't have a strong enough arm to go deep effectively. Although he may have had his best career game using it.
If you read between the lines and are smart about what is going on at the Bears, you'll know Bates is the key to the Bears success on Offense. And he is going to use what he knows and did in Seattle and with Cutler; the Mike Shanahan Offense.
Bates will use what tools he has to give you the best chance to win but in the long run it's going to be a version of the Shanahan Offense.
Now can the Bears screw this up? Hell, yeah! Lovie hired Martz didn't he? And I'll blame Martz' Offense for Cutler's concussion, injured knee, and broken hand.
Cutler didn't have a history of injuries until he came here. Funny how Grossman and Orton got hurt a lot too. Could it be the O-line?
Oh, by the way, I see Grossman's salary for the Shanahan Offense he runs for the Redskins was $800,000. Pretty cheap for a backup who already knows your system I think.
Unlike Martz' system which was so complicated Brett Favre couldn't run it. Remember? Remember last year Favre wanted to come play for the Bears when Cutler went down but the Bears said no thanks. It's too complicated for one of the greatest QB's of all time to run. And besides they had HANIE!
That situation was all Lovie Smith's fault! That's why he needs to go.
Then Lovie cripples the Bears budget by keeping Forte. It's just one blunder after another!
But if the Bears are true to their blundering form they will probably only sign one major FA; DE Mario Williams and that's it for your big money signings.
Then they will use the 19th pick on another DE or trade down for more picks on Defense. 2nd round will be WR. Picks 3rd, 3rd, and 4th will all be Defense, RB 5th, OT 6th, OG/C 7th.
GO LOVIE BEARS!
I am now retiring my name of Creighton and will post under the name Get Real.
Forget having a competent backup QB! That had NOTHING to do with the Bears collapse last year!
EVERYBODY knows you can't win the Superbowl unless you pay your RB $10 million a year! You see every winning team does it!
If only the Bears had given Forte his $10 mil last year, we would've won it ALL!
You think $7.7 mil is going to get the job done???
PAY THE MAN HIS MONEY!
GO LOVIE BEARS!
"I am now retiring my name of Creighton and will post under the name Get Real."
LOL!! That would be halfway plausible if you didn't spell so well. That you're NOT the real Creighton I think we can be utterly certain. Muahahaha!!
Get Real,
"And when he goes, his blundering handpicked GM Emery needs to go too."
You're not a very patient man, are you? I agree with you that Lovie is a buffoon, but Emery's only been on the job for about three weeks and you're already calling for his head. So far Emery's made three relatively minor personnel moves: cutting Adams, cutting Omiyale (thank God), and tagging Forte. It's too soon to hit the panic button based on that.
Ok...when u start quoting Wikipedia on a football blog u are a complete tard...whoever u are...
BigBear,
I don't see tagging Forte as a minor move. I see it as a blunder in several ways.
1) I don't think Forte is worth the money. He is being overpaid.
2) The Bears are overpaying for the position.
3) Forte is an average to above average player. He is holding back others who have more upside potential who will play at a cheaper price.
4) The new Offense is designed so that you don't need expensive star RB's but use cheap average RB's. Because the risk of injury is so great at the position, the scheme assures success without risking big money players to do it.
5) The Bears have a limited budget but many more important needs to spend the money on. We may get another RB to play for $600,000- $1 mil a year and get almost the same if not more production as Forte under the new system.
Why waste $7 million on a RB when that money will help pay for upgrades at WR, OLT, Guard or DE? Instead of 3 new FA's, maybe now because of the Forte tag you can only afford two, or just one. And that makes it harder to win when you can't upgrade your talent.
Because of Lovie's situation at the Bears he couldn't find anybody who wanted to be the Defensive Coordinator so he had to make Marinelli the DC even though Marinelli didn't want to do it. Then nobody wanted to be the OC so he hired Mike Martz.
It was ridiculous of the Bears to hire a new GM based on Lovie's approval. In this position Emery is no better than a puppet. The man owes Lovie his job. How can he say no to Lovie on anything important?
Even if Emery saw that tagging Forte was the wrong thing to do, he has no choice but to do what Lovie wants or risk his job. He was hired to follow Lovie's vision. He was hired because he supposedly believed in the Lovie Smith way or else he wouldn't have been hired.
Martz is gone. Angelo is gone. 38 other coaches are gone. Lovie Smith obviously has the power until he wears out his welcome with the McCaskeys.
Emery was already with the Bears once and has not distinguished himself from anything I can see since he left. He wasn't hired to bring massive change and new ideas. He's been hired to continue on with the same old same old.
There is no reason for me to think something new is going to happen. Emery will just be following Lovie's orders. And that is why he must go with Lovie. He got hired because he drinks the Lovie kool-aid. He buys into Lovie's vision.
If Lovie leaves and Emery stays, the Lovie vision stays. The Lovie way of doing things stays. How can things change if Lovie is fired but Emery stays? So, Emery must go as well.
Emery may stay if he were to be doing a fantastic job. But he won't do a fantastic job unless he is super lucky. Because the philosophy and way he is going to do things is going to be Lovie's philosophy and way of doing things.
Having said that, Lovie has been very lucky. He should have been gone years ago, but somehow he just keeps hanging on. I think the Bears ownership is frightened of change. And Lovie costs $5 mil a year. Didn't Jim Harbaugh get $7 mil to start? And what would Bill Cowher cost? $10 million? The cost of winning may be too much for the Bears to handle.
The Lovie Way doesn't seem like a plan or strategy. It's re-active instead pro-active. The Bears don't seem to care or know what to do on Offense. That's why Martz got the job in the first place. Nobody else wanted the job and he was Lovie's old friend.
It seems Lovie doesn't want to win ballgames using his own Offense. He wants his Defense to wait for the other team to make mistakes and turnovers on Offense, which his Defense can then return for touchdowns.
In fact, it seems if the Bears could just play Defense for 60 minutes and never take the field Offensively then that would be ideal.
But that would be incredibly boring in my opinion.
The Bears are trapped trying to play 1920's football. Why else do you think Forte is crazily 35-40% of the Offense? Run the ball and play Defense. And Lovie only kind of knows the Defense part.
The Bears philosophy has been to just have a good enough Offense to score 13 points a game and win with Defense.
That's why Chicago is where WR's go to die.
They brought Jay Cutler in to be the best "game manager" they've ever had. Except he's such a good QB they don't know what to do with him. Jay wants to pass more than 10 times a game! And pass farther than 15 yards! Oh, my!
That makes it tough when all you want to do is spend all the money and high draft picks on Defense.
Now the Bears got lucky because Jay Cutler got them to bring in Jeremy Bates and we have hope now on the Offense. Somebody knows what they're doing.
But knowing what to do and getting Lovie and his handpicked GM Emery to go along with it are two different things.
I try to make things easy to understand and easy to find. Especially for people like you.
My thoughts exactly...When did Wikipedia become a source of "research"?
Considering I could change that entry to say that Tice eats puppies on Thursdays, and wears a cape and a mask and fights crime on weekends, and it would stay there until someone else changes it, I would hardly call that a reputable source.
If Wikipedia is allowable as reference material, I think we can safely say we won't sign Mario Williams....my dog told me so....
Yeah, you're right. Mike Tice has enemies out there putting out a false history about his work experience in the NFL.
And there is no possible way to double check those facts, if you were to doubt them, is there?
It's Wikipedia, it must be wrong! That's why no one ever uses it.
Despite the fact that it has been reported in the news that Wikipedia is JUST AS ACCURATE as the ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA!
DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND STOP LISTENING TO YOUR DOG. HE'S WRONG!
GO LOVIE BEARS!
Your dog needs to do it's homework as well. If your dog has paid any attention the last few years to the Bears, it'd know that the Bears CANNOT DEVELOP DE's!
That's why Lovie Smith personally jumped on a plane to go sign Julius Peppers. Defensive Ends are the Bears "crack cocaine"!
Oh, they may say and know there's more important needs but I say the addiction wins out in the end.
Your dog needs to remember the Bears motto;
"Offense??? Offense??? We don't need no stinkin' Offense!"
GO LOVIE BEARS!
Esteven, haha, a little combative with our ending catch phrases aren't we?
And Gears for Brains, sorry but that wasn't me. The answer's literally right in front of you but you're too thick to figure it out.
Vincent Jackson or Mario Williams? VJ isn't bad, but certainly not a top 10 WR. And Mario Williams would immediately boost the defense. Still, I say it's about time Cutler gets some freaking help. If not a receiver, then for the love of all that is holy protect him so his career doesn't get shortened. Sign Nicks or whatever other offensive line help you can get. Give #6 protection and weapons, and he will prove to you he is one of the elite quarterbacks of the NFL.
..I totally agree with Auggie!! Overpaying for a WR is exactly what will screw up cap space! Trade Briggs!?! Were you watching last year?? I would sooner give up a 1st rounder and pay Mike Wallace 8-10mil per year, before I'd pay VJax 10mil!! Forget VJax! Pay Mario...draft DeCastro, Poe or Konz at 19 (..preferably DeCastro..)--and package up our #2 pick with one of our 3's, to move up in the second round...Stephen Hill would be a nice catch, there.....GETDOWN, BEARS!!
Get Real,
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but where I differ is that I'm not willing to assume something has happened until it does. Lovie has proven he's a simpleton so I'm with you on that, but Emery hasn't proven anything yet. Also, while I hope the Bears install the "Shanahan" offense because that's where Cutler was most successful, we don't know that they will. Tice has a say in that and he may not be willing to hand over the offense to Bates and Cutler. After all, this is his chance to make a name for himself and parlay it into another HC position. So, it's too early to judge the tag on Forte, especially since Forte seemed plenty motivated last year when he was playing for a contract.
One last thing, the Martz offense is about as far removed from a 1920s offense as you can get. The reason Forte was 40% of it was because our receivers sucked, and our linemen couldn't protect Cutler long enough for those seven-step drops.
The fact that the Bears can't develop DEs leads you to "we will sign Mario Williams and screw our cap for the next 5 years?" If you were to follow football information sites instead of validating Wikipedia posts, you would see multiple sites reporting that the Bears tried like crazy to get Kamerion Wimbley a couple of years back when he was poised for free agency, and are reportedly very interested in going after him if and when he is released by the Raiders with a $17 million cap number coming this year. He will not cost $12-15 mil per year like Mario, and should cost around $7-8 mil per year, which leaves us room to re-sign Kellen Davis and Craig Steltz for the $5M we aren't kicking in for Mario.
Mario Williams would screw our cap up big time going forward, and Emery is on more than a 1 year contract, so he can't afford to mortgage the long term health of the franchise to bail Lovie out this year. The organization has always believed in setting themselves up for multiple years out as far as the cap goes, and this year will be no different. Ted Phillips gets his orders from the McCaskeys, and they won't get caught like the Raiders with millions over the cap that they have to trim down. Basically, Lovie has this year to get it done or ownership will not be able to protect him any longer. He has fired every scapegoat he can find, and can't get anyone else to come coach with him. So that also means he can't lock in on one guy who hoses up his cap. That's why I also think we will bow out of the Vincent Jackson sweepstakes, which should hit in excess of $10M per year, in favor of a less expensive option (like Meachem or Pierre Garcon).
Wimbley, Garcon, and Ben Grubbs will probably end up being our free agent signings, and Emery will do what he can to trade back in round 1 to the mid 20s, a la Pioli, to get extra second or third round picks this year or next year, to start building up the depth on this roster, which is currently non-existent. Then they draft Hill towards the back end of the first, and get another DE like Cam Johnson or Chandler Jones in the second or third round.
If Lovie wants to keep his job, he will realize that he needs an offense to run his completely predictable, easily beatable elementary school defense. He has no imagination, not versatility, and no innovation at all on that side of the ball. The only chance he has with the team he has now is to put 10 more points a game on the board. To this point he has stubbornly believed you can win championships in this league hoping someone else makes a mistake, and that his team would be in a position to capitalize on that mistake. The real coaches in this league try to win the game (anyone else hearing Herm Edwards??). They don't try and wait for someone else to lose it. You win the game with offense, and you clinch the wins with defense. Not the other way around.
BigBear you wrote:
"Tice has a say in that and he may not be willing to hand over the offense to Bates and Cutler. After all, this is his chance to make a name for himself and parlay it into another HC position."
Tice has never been a OC before. Bates has been one and Bates is the son of an NFL coach. Bates supposedly eats, drinks and sleeps football and everywhere he goes he has a playbook in his hand. I forget now, but I thought Bates has been called a football genius by those who know him.
From my previous post:
"On becoming Bears OC it was reported: "Tice will be in charge of the running game and will be paired with a passing game assistant, according to Fox's Jay Glazer."
If Tice is going to be so great then he shouldn't need to be "paired" up with a passing game assistant. It says Tice will be "in charge of the running game".
Tice basically inherited the job because of the Martz debacle. Just like Marinelli was forced to become DC because nobody else would take the job.
Tice has a say in what goes on, but I have no doubt that Bates is going to be doing most of the planning. You can read Cutler's comments about Bates' hiring to see that Bates will be the mastermind.
In regards to the Forte tag, it's already a failure because of how it cripples the Bears ability to sign better players at other positions. We don't NEED Matt Forte! And we're even installing an Offense that is known for doing great without big money RB's. Emery should have known that. Tice should have known that.
I see tons of players being let go because they cost too much and it would hurt the team, it's no shame! It's smart business.
People talk about Emery will do this and Emery will do that. And I'm thinking "What? Are all you people crazy?" In my opinion, it's as if Lovie Smith grew another head and named it Emery!
Emery will do what Lovie Smith tells him to do as far as I am concerned. Lovie will have to give his seal of approval.
Angelo was being paid big money and so they didn't want to fire him and eat that contract too soon. But Emery might be getting a very low salary, as he should since he hasn't done anything to deserve big money. So, to dump him in the near future would not cost too much. I tend to think the Bears went so far below the salary cap last year in order to save up on the money they are spending to fire Angelo, and Lovie may be included in that number in case they let him go.
And because the new GM HAD to believe in and want Lovie Smith as coach or else he would not be hired, then that tells me the Bears are very, very likely to extend Lovie's contract again.
And Lovie could have played Enderle for that last game to see what we have in him, which was the right thing to do. Maybe even play Hanie again just to make sure about him. We would have likely lost, but would have learned what we had in our young QB's.
But Lovie wouldn't do that. He said something about "best chance to win". Yes, because then it would reflect poorly on his record and give him a greater chance of being fired. Never mind the total disaster of a season it already was because of his mistakes.
As a result, Urlacher gets hurt, and instead of having the 13th pick in the draft or lower, we get the 19th pick instead, further crippling the team's ability to improve. Another blunder!
Finally, you wrote:
"One last thing, the Martz offense is about as far removed from a 1920s offense as you can get. The reason Forte was 40% of it was because our receivers sucked, and our linemen couldn't protect Cutler long enough for those seven-step drops."
When I say 1920's football, I am referring to the main Bears philosophy of how to run the team. Running the ball and Defense.
The way I look at it, Mike Martz was only hired because he was Lovie's friend who had hired Lovie on the Rams and because no one else would take the job.
Not because Lovie had some special vision of the future.
It seems Lovie barely knows how to run a Defense. You expect him to know how to go about putting together an Offense? Or hiring the right people to do so?
But don't worry. Cutler has Bates now. We have a sliver of hope.
GO LOVIE BEARS!
I don't need to follow "football information sites" , which are mostly opinion anyway, to know what's going on. I've watched the Bears a long time and see their habits and what they're up to.
They pretty much can't see the forest for the trees. A monkey throwing darts at a draft board could probably draft as well.
They keep hiring retreads from Tampa into their organization. It's all their old buddies. Phil Emery is just another retread. Been there, done that.
While you may have some sensible ideas on what to do, if you watched the Bears then you know they can't be counted on to do what makes sense.
Lovie had to give his blessing on who got hired as new GM. And you think Lovie's job is in jeopardy??? Get real, man.
The whole Matt Forte Tag Fiasco crippling the teams budget is just the latest in a long line of blunders.
You go ahead and believe your "football information" sites all you want, but first go over to the Chicago Tribune's website and read Tribune reporter and Bears insider Dan Pompei's most recent article:
"Texans' Williams should be Bears' top free-agent target" "WR a need too, but rare pass-rushing skills too good to pass up"
Pompei says:
"As the subjects of the A&E series "Hoarders" might attest, you can't have too much of a good thing — especially pass rushers, and especially given the defensive and team philosophies the Bears subscribe to."
Hmm. A Bears philosophy? Where have I read that terminology before? Was it Wikipedia? No. Was it on a "football information site"? No.
I know...it was right here on this blog!
WHEN I WROTE IT!!!
GO LOVIE BEARS!
@Get Real:
First of all, you have way too much time on your hands.
Second, I'll concede your Wikipedia-fueled research that Tice hasn't held the official designation of OC. My bad. However, that particular title is a little fluid. Of course, there are traditional scenarios where an OC calls the plays from a headset in the booth or on the line ... and then there are scenarios where the "playcaller" and the head coach work together ... and then there are situations like San Francisco - where Harbaugh, the OC, and the QB coach might call, change-up or tweak plays on the fly. There are also situations where the head coach calls the plays.
Tice had a similar role in Minnesota. He wore the headset. He had the playbook cards. He's coached guys up ... and, IMO, he's got a resume that's much more comprehensive than Bates.
Before you hit the caps lock on keyboard and start spewing, know this: I do love the Bates hire. I also agree with you that it is possible that much of the passing game playbook may be managed, implemented, and driven by Bates and Cutler.
What I asked you originally was: "Do you have any data to backup all of the assertions and assumptions you mentioned?"
Do you?
Before you reply, take a deep breath, pull your pants up, and make sure you have all your meds ... also, take the caps lock off.
Late ... clown.
Just as a quick point of reference, in his most recent mailbag, Pompei said he would give a third round pick for Colt McCoy...Might want to temper your belief in his analytical skills. If he was that good, he would still be working for the Sporting News.
And there is a difference between "should be the Bears top target" and "will be the Bears top target". We can haggle over which information to listen to all day long, but the bottom line is with only 24 million under the cap, the Bears can't afford to make the splash on Wililams. Would it be the best move they can make? Probably, but they would be in the same boat as the Raiders and Colts, where they will struggle to field a competitive 53 guys if they do that. $12 million to sign essentially 10-12 guys is going to be tough, and even if we pull it off, they won't be the guys we would want on the roster. And that's assuming we can get Mario for $12 per year. I don't expect we will be able to keep the bidding that low. I don't disagree with the Forte move as much as you do, because I think he will prove out this year that he is still not elite enough to deserve $18-20 mil guaranteed, but he is a very good back, and we won't find anyone better out there in the draft or free agency. After this season, if he proves he can be elite, you sign him long term. If not, you let him walk and be someone else's problem, and we get a compensatory pick for him in 2014.
If we install the Shanahan offense, a lesser back with particular traits can get the job done, but from what they said at the start of free agency, they will be installing elements of that offense, not the whole thing, to prevent them from having to start over again this offseason. Basically, they will be implementing the bootlegs, play action, and more diverse intermediate routes than what Martz used. And also making sure the protection is adequate for Cutler. And the use of the tight end in the passing game. They won't go full zone, because that's not what Tice does. He likes bigger offensive linemen, which goes against the Alex Gibbs zone scheme of smaller, more mobile linemen. That means the back needs to be able to make multiple cuts, and have good vision. which is a different type of back than Shanahan likes.
I agree the Bears are likely to bumble, but that doesn't mean that it is business as usual. Emery had his time here with Hatley and Angelo, but he also spent time with Dimitroff and Pioli, who are the polar opposite of Angelo, meaning they actually understand talent and how to evaluate it. Just because he has to work with Lovie this year doesn't mean that he has to drink the Lovie kool-aid. Phillips and the McCaskeys have given ultimate authority for the roster to the GM, and sadly, that is what has us in the state we are in. Before we condemn Emery to being another cronie, we should take a look at his behavior so far. By this point, Angelo had already telegraphed his first, second, and third round targets, and given a head's up to at least one later round guy he wanted. Emery is not saying anything to anybody. If nothing else, he at least knows how to play the game, which puts him a step ahead of Angelo and Lovie. Lovie wants Stephen Hill, but Emery may not share that sentiment. Once the draft card gets handed in, we will see who holds the power. If it's Lovie, we will miss the playoffs, and he will be fired. If it's Emery, we may still miss the playoffs and get a new coach, but at least we will be starting off on the right foot. A coach who can't manage a game should not be making personnel decisions, and the Bears will never be relevent until that stops.
If we want to blow up the roster, then we should sign Mario Williams, but if we start rebuilding with Lovie, then we will need to keep him for the long haul, and I would rather we do something different.
I don't agree with much of what Dan Pompei ever says. I wish he'd go write somewhere else. My point was, he is expressing the Bears mindset. His opinions usually agree with Halas Hall almost 100%. So, when he says Mario Williams is the guy the Bears should get, I would not be surprised if a little birdy told him so.
The Bears are constantly blundering. Letting Thomas Jones go. A blunder.Signing Martz a blunder. Signing Brandon Manumaleuna. A blunder. Letting Chester Taylor go. A blunder. Trading for Gaines Adams. A blunder. Not trading Olsen to the Patriots. A blunder. Signing Todd Collins. A blunder. Signing Omiyale. A blunder. Drafting Chris Williams. A blunder. Keeping Chris Williams. A blunder. Not trading Forte. A blunder.Signing Brandon Merriweather. A blunder. Dumping Kreutz 3 years too late. A blunder.
The point is you may think signing Mario Williams will destroy the Bears but even if that was the most likely outcome, the Bears would still do it. Lovie Smith just sat there and watched Cutler get sacked 9 times in a half and get concussed. (Another blunder!)
How can you explain letting that happen?
Because it's the BEARS. That's why!
I could see Jeremy Bates being fired over how to run the Offense. He's not going to want to see Cutler get sacked 50 or 60 times. He might ask why we have such an awful O-line. He might suggest fixing it. Oops! Big mistake. You're fired Bates!
Anyway, we'll see what direction the Bears are going shortly.
The Bears have a short window to go to the Superbowl with this aging Defense. If signing M. Williams wins the Bears the Superbowl and ruins the team for the next 5 years after, then it would be the first Superbowl win in 27 years and worth it.
Brad Biggs and Matt Bowen said you don't need to have a Top 5 Defense to win the Superbowl anymore. I agree and would rather see a major overhaul on the O-line and an upgrade at WR to win instead.
But I expect very little will be done for the Offense and the Defense will get all the big money and high picks once again.
Such is Life in Chicago. Where WR's and QB's go to die.
GO LOVIE BEARS!