Chicago Sun-Times

Angelo addresses variety of topics

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Jerry Angelo discusses everything from the new offense to rookie Major Wright to the possibility of acquiring free-agent safety O.J. Atogwe in his bi-monthly conversation with senior writer Larry Mayer. (I wish we could that kind of regular access). Here's the link:

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LM: "There have been a lot of interceptions in OTA practices. Are you concerned that the offense is struggling to learn Mike Martz’s system or is it just part of typical growing pains?"

Angelo "So much of our offense has to do with timing and being precise, particularly in their alignments and route-running. Timing is extremely important, and all of the shifting and motion going on before the snap makes it very challenging for our players. Everybody has to be razor sharp in terms of their assignments and alignment."

What? I said this a week ago on this board, but people on this board went nuts and suggested I was crazy. Please feel free to go off on Angelo. How dare he say that a new offense based on timing can be difficult.

JA: "He’s a good football player. We’ve evaluated him and we like him. But at this point, we’re set. We drafted Major Wright and traded for Chris Harris. We also have Danieal Manning, Craig Steltz and Josh Bullocks, all of whom have started in this league. We have five pretty good safeties, four of whom have a goodly amount of experience within our scheme. We feel good about that position."

Well if they have five good safeties, then last year they had three good safeties, and only two safeties start. So if they had three good safeties why did they need more of them and why was the position so bad?

Angelo also commented of Forte being a good blocker, even though he is one of the lowest rated blockers at his position, and that the Bears have had success with tandem backs. Like??? Jones 1330 yards and Benson 272 yards in 2005. Yes thats very tandem. Now take away about 100 rushing attempts in the Martz offense which is what will happen and I am sure it will be a dominant run game.

Creighton who said Mike Martz offense doesnt utilize his running backs. Anything over 300 rush att. a year will take a toll on any, ANY running back in the NFL. You keep going back to the year when Martz was in St.Louis so Im gonna post some stats here. We both know we love stats. Here is Marshall Faulks stats from 1999-2001.
2001 St. Louis Rams 14 260 1,382 5.3 12

2000 St. Louis Rams 14 253 1,359 5.4 18

1999 St. Louis Rams 16 253 1,381 5.5 7

When healthy Forte can have a productive season getting the ball 250+ times.

Marketing drivel from two house clowns -- Meyer being the bigger of the two by far.

Every year they peddle us this horse hockey that they are happy with mediocre talent when quality is out there to be gotten. They got some, but are so awful that they need to get more. #3 in the Division on paper is not inspiring a lot of confidence, but they go in with a sold out stadium and a guaranteed profit this year and next even with a lock-out.

Its business. Make sure the finances tote up then BS your way through the media events. Most of the other teams tout themselves on paper this time of year too with little to back it up objectively. Find me an article that says a key player the team is counting on (not someone they want to trash for financial reasons) at any team looks slow, fat, lazy, stoned, whipped, hurt, or stupid at this point in the offseason!

I would make some comments, but I'm not allowed. All you have to do is read what is posted and make your own conclusions about a certain "know-it-all" that doesn't! BEAR DOWN!!

Can this offensive team learn and execute Martz's offense effectively in year 1 of its inception? If they can it may make for some additional yards from the running backs like Forte and Taylor.

I know Marshall Faulk rushed for some pretty impressive numbers in St. Louis and so should Forte if he gets the carries. I believe that Chester Taylor is going to take quite a few carries away from Forte this year. Will Forte get 250 carries? Maybe not, but he will get a lot of yardage out of the backfield in the passing game.

We will see it should be interesting, particularly if the Bears/Cutler can not lead the league in interceptions. If Cutler can finish in the top 16 in interceptions then this offense should be quite productive.

I cannot wait to see it perform on game day.

Hey Brando who said anything about a single back? I didn't mention Faulk in my post either. Is he on the Bears now? I said rushing attempts and talked about Tandem backs, so did Angelo. Thats what the quote marks are for. Then I asked when was the last time the Bears had a true Tandem back set that was close to splitting carries equally as Angelo implies.

I have already posted Faulks stats, like 10 times or better on this site. We don't have Faulk which I have pointed out a couple of dozen times. Now Faulk was a football god no question, and he is the main reason the Greatest show on turf worked, but again we don't have him, and Forte is not even close to that level of player. Also let me point something out to you Faulk had his best year before he ever met Martz,

Now you want to talk about Martz's stats, Martz not Faulk, then lets see if I was right about my claim that the rushing attempts will go down and that the Martz offense is not known as a rushing offense. This is not about one player, this is about the offense.

1999 431 attempts, League Rank Att 15th, Yards 5th

2000 383 rushing attempts, League rank Att 25th, Yards 17th

2001 416 attempts League Rank att 22nd, Yards 5th,

2002 343 attempts League Rank att 32nd, Yards 30th

2003 411 attempts League Rank att 28th, Yards 30th

2004 381 attempts, League Rank 30th, Yards 25th

2005 380 attempts, League Rank 29th, Yards 22nd

Now for Detroit

2006 304 attempts, League Rank 32nd, Yards 32nd

2007 324 attempts, League Rank 32nd, Yards 31st

Now for the 49ers

2008 397 attempts, League Rank 27th, Yards 27th

See you seem to think a great player makes a great team or a great offense, but in fact a great team makes a great team. As you can see when I post on another thread that you are commenting on about Martz not having much of a rushing attack I was clearly right.

Faulk was an amazing player, but that doesn't mean they had a great rushing attack. You also assume I am worried about Forte, I am not. One thing you are missing is the fact that on the post you are talking about, I pointed out that Forte would see more passes thrown his way in fact I said he would see about 100 attempts. Which is a large increase.

What I have said and will continue to say is that this is not a rushing offense and the Bears do not have the calibure of players that where on the 99-01 rams. As you can see only twice in 10 seasons did Martz have a good rushing attack. Faulk being great is irrelivant, it does not change the fact that the rushing attack is weak. The Bears rushing attack was weak last year, it will not get better under Martz it will get worse.

Now before you and Tripper complain, this is just basic inductive reasoning, using factual stats as support. It is not 100% accurate, the Bears could have a good rushing attack, but chances are it will be at the bottom of the league. I understand the point you are making about Faulk, but this is about the bigger picture.

Brando let me help you out. First you need to understand what an argument is. It is not a fight, or a contradiction it is a reason given in proof or rebuttal, or discourse intended to persuade.

When I post an argument about the Bears I use inductive logic because it is football and in most cases deductive logic will not work. I combine that with verious stats used as support. Stats that I use include confidence intervals.

An inductive argument is an argument in which
the conclusion is only claimed to be probable
given the premises.

For purposes of convenience, ‘probable’ will generally mean something like “greater than 0.5 or 50%.”
Remember: probability ranges from 0 to 1, with 0 being logically impossible and 1 being logically certain/required.

A strong argument is an inductive argument in which the truth of the premises make the truth of the conclusion probable or likely to be true.

An argument is cogent when it is strong and has all true premises.!

Prediction: The premises deal with facts in the past or present and the conclusion is about what will happen in the future.!

This is the basics for what I try to do.

Now what you wrote is in fact an argument, an inductive argument, but it is neither strong nor is it cogent. Which makes it a weak argument. Non the less it is still an argument rather than a contritdiction which is what you usually do. If you don;t understnad why it is not, its the fact that premis does not equal your conclusion. My argument on the other hand adds up.

When you learn these basic concepts of logic and forms of argument then you will understand the basics needed to win an argument against me. Sense I can assume that is your goal you may want to take English 102 and Logic once you graduate HS and if you go to college.

Oh and Missing/Implicit Premises! You need to know those, because I assume people have a clue about football I figure they understand what is implied which it is clear you often miss. So work on this as well.

Brando while you love to fight and contradict, you do not know how to argue.

Tripper quit holding your breath, your not 6 years old are you?


Try to live within reality.
The la-la land forecast by the Bears organization is just that...a fairy tale. It has nothing to do with BEAR Down.
If I was to Bear down as you say, the first thing I would do is fire the bozos that are running the club and hire some people that know something about football.
If to Bear Down means to follow this organization off the high cliff like sheep, then you can have it. Enjoy the falls!

Geez Creighton I never said how good Faulk was, I was just showed us fans that as the Rams main running back in a Martz offence Faulk rushed the ball over 250 times a year. Thats it. You dont need to write a book. Creighton never tell me what anything is. I know what an argument is. It is your opinion that it is weak and you know what I can care less about what you think because most of your thinking is crap. The only reason why I think you go on about 2,500 different blogs sites cause you know you cant get punched in the face.

Anyone who thinks we're going to pass it more this year doesn't know what the hell they're looking at and doesn't understand football. Jay Cutler threw the ball 555 times last year. Bear record. No way that happens again. Balance must return to the offense or we become too easy to game-plan for as teams would be all over our tendancies.

Look at the bare facts :

Did we bring in another receiver ? No.

Who did we hire on the O-side ? A running back and a run-blocking TE, at great expense. We'll see 100 more rushes, not less. MArtz loves the media coming out with all this BS like we're going to break the record for pass attempts again. The Bears will run the ball and play smash-mouth defense. This is not Mike Martz' team. Lovie wants to run the ball and this year we can actually do it.

With all the sniping back and forth, the real issue get's obscured. That issue being that the media {that includes print, TV, and radio} treat Angelo with kid gloves. The "16 inch softball" tossed questions to JA are nauseating at best. At worst, they are a slap in the face to every die hard Bears fan. Where are the follow up questions?
"We have five pretty good safeties, four of whom have a goodly amount of experience within our scheme. We feel good about that position."
Gearheadboy: "Jerry, with all due respect, you can't judge a 3rd round draft pick after 6 weeks of OTA's and label him a "pretty good safety." As for the other 3 (not including Harris) if they have mastered Lovie's system so well, why was it widely known before the draft that FS, along with OG, was your #1 need and on top of that, you went out and traded for a SS?"
GHB: "One more on the safeties, if I may." "What have you seen from D. Manning in 4 unproductive years, and countless opportunities bestowed upon him by this coaching staff, that lends you to believe he is, and I quote, 'a pretty good safety'"?
And Larry, if you're reading this, how about a couple more questions about how JA didn't address the aging offensive line until round 7 with a very weak upper body "project" in Webb? Or here's one Larry and you don't even have to give me credit for it.
"Jerry, with the Martz' comments a few weeks ago about a veteran QB, and the fact that this team was so limited in it's draft day resources, isn't the pick of Lefevour one that a 12-4, or 13-3 team makes not a 7-9 one with several key holes to fill?"
As I said earlier it's unfortunate that the media in Chicago has not held this guy more accountable for the team he has put together. And that includes, scouting/evaluating, and coaches.

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This page contains a single entry by Neil Hayes published on June 16, 2010 1:47 PM.

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