Chicago Sun-Times

Bears interested in Sims but Seahawks not interested in Brown

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The Bears have talked to the Seattle Seahawks about acquiring guard Rob Sims, a restricted free agent.

But, contrary to a report in the Chicago Tribune, the Seahawks are not at all interested in trading Sims for defensive end Alex Brown, according to two sources close to the situation.

The Bears are hoping to trade Brown, who is due to make $5 million in 2010 and to turn 31 this summer, and the Seahawks have a need for a pass rusher, especially after trading Darryl Tapp to the Philadelphia Eagles and losing Cory Redding in free agency.

But the Seahawks are not interested in Brown at $5 million a season.

The Seahawks are believed to be far more interested in the draft pick.

Meanwhile, the Bears would only need to give the Seahawks a fourth-round pick if they sign Sims to an offer sheet. Sims is big and athletic, which is what new Bears offensive line coach Mike Tice likes, and he has 34 NFL starts under his belt.

According to one source, Sims is deemed expendable because new offensive line coach Alex Gibbs is more inclined to work with players with whom he's more familiar.

But Sims has been a solid player for the Seahawks, especially given that he's had different offensive line coaches in each of his four NFL seasons. The 26-year-old Sims may revel in working with Tice, one of the most respected offensive line coaches in the NFL.

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31 Comments

That's what I'm talking about Angelo! Get rid of a somewhat expendable, but still marketable veteran to bring a young and talented player that fits the scheme (at a position of need no less). Even if we don't get Rob, I like Jerry's thinking. Grab a guard in the trade market and select a safety in an earlier round. Too bad we really need that 4th round pick (Da Bears only have 5 selecttions this April), because I like this possible Sims-Brown move. Maybe they'll deal him for our 4th and Alex, whilst giving up a 5th or 6th round pick in return. One can only hope, right? Bear Down Chicago!

Yeah, Most fans don't want to give up Brown either. He is our second best DE next to Peppers and a heck of a guy. Bears front office are tearing us apart..

If Sims is sound why not do it, a fourth round selection is not a lot to give for a proven NFL starter, that actually plays the position the BEARs need left OG.

I do not know a lot about Sims still reading up on him. I understand that Holmgren wanted to trade for Sims and bring him to Cleveland, I would think Holmgren knows better than most since he worked directly with Sims in Seattle.

Good size 26 years old, Ohio State University, 6'3" 312 mobile, good pass protector, run ok.

As long as the Bears don't give too much, a good move.

So that sets the market value we need to get from Brown. We need a 4th round pick or better for him, so we can sign Sims for the 4th round compensation. Justin Smiley is another option, but it is going to be harder to get him, as the Fins want a 3rd round pick or better.

I honestly wouldn't mind giving up our 4th and not replacing it to get a guard who can start right now, where we aren't taking a chance on a developmental draft pick. That would give us 3 young linemen (all 25-28 years old)to build around in Williams, Sims, and Omiyale. The left side would be steady with Sims and Williams, and we could develop a young center (or Beekman, who is also around 26), and a right guard is the only missing piece. Louis might be a possibility, but I would rather we do better than both Beekman and Louis.

Finally, it looks like we are making some additional moves in free agency. Sims would likely be the same cost as Alex Brown, possibly less, and then our biggest hole is the free safety position, where we have a chance at some decent prospects in round 3, or we still could make a move or two to get a shot at Atogwe.

Lovie and Angelo are going all out this year. It is starting to appear that they really have been given a win-now ultimatum. They are overhauling this roster in a hurry. The only reason they are keeping Harris at this point is if he can manage to get back to form, it makes it a lot easier to succeed on defense, and you don't have the same potential on the roster right now. As they have for the last three years, they will be disappointed in putting that faith in Tommie, but they are going to ride that horse into the ground.

Seahawks site:

● Missed 15 games in 2008 after being placed on injured reserve (pectoral muscle) on September 10.
● Part of offensive line that helped team rush for 2007 season high 167 yards at Atlanta (12/30/07).
● Started all four playoff games during his first two seasons and helped Shaun Alexander rush for 108 yards and two touchdowns in the NFC Divisional Playoff his rookie year at Chicago (1/14/06)
● Made NFL debut replacing Chris Gray (knee) in the third game of the 2006 season vs. the New York Giants (9/24/06) as line did not allow a sack.

6'3" 312....yeah, good size and a starter for 3 years, he would maybe have the weight and experience to help Olin, (more than our OG) not a ProBowler like Brown was though, I would look at other better RFA OG if any are there, if not then...

I would give a 4th and Brown for Sims if we have no takers for Brown, (we might have to drop Brown anyway) cause we need Oline help in the worst way. I would look at who is available at 3 in the draft and give a 3rd for Sims, if we feel that draft pick wont help this year due to development issues. TheN we can go safety at 4, or 3. I feel Brown is worth Sims even up as they are both about the same worth NFL wise. But Brown is not worth 5 mil at all, he doesnt have the sack stats to back that up. I would be hard pressed to pay 5 mil if I were the Hawks. If I were the Hawks I would negotIate for our 3 pick.
And if we offer, then we will break off (and PO the Hawks) any negotiations right then and there.

So,
3 straight up
4 and Brown (Brown may be worth nada to the Bears)

I am assuming if we sign Sims to an offer the Hawks have the right to match? and only if they dont match then we give them the 4? and sign Sims, which would be kool except if they match.....Cause if so then we would need to negotiate first.
Is the contract match in effect for Sims?

If Brown were smart he would renegotiate his pay with the trade team of the Bears rather than being dropped and taking whats offered. Not sure I understand the pay scale this year

Doesn't sound too bad a deal for a 4th round. Take a proven G in essence for a 4th rnd pick. Pick a FS in 3rd and cover three holes by moving Omiyale to RT, Simms to either G position and rookie to FS. I say get'r done, if Simms is any good. Any comments on his ability? Plus, KEEP Brown, if for nothing else, insurance. Somebody is likely to get hurt, I can't believe you let him go for anything less than a 2nd-3rd, I wouldn't. Pay him the money and rotate him in or trade him for a good FS.

All you people who are so willing to get rid of Alex Brown are clueless. First, this is a class guy and locker room leader with great attitude who gives 100% every play. Like Thomas Jones and Mike Brown, he's got essential intangibles that won't be replaced by anyone else on the team, and may in fact be what's needed with Julius Peppers. In addition to all that, he's made the Pro Bowl several times. Brown is not just a mediocre player with intangibles, he's an above average player like Jones. (He HAS been playing on the wrong side his entire career, but that's the fault of the coaching staff, despite his desire to play on the right side. If he had been playing on the left side, his run-stopping abilities would have been more valuable and he might even have more sacks against inferior tackles.)

Second, exactly who do you experts suggest the Bears replace Brown with? It's not like they have any other good ends beside Peppers. Lovie Smith already said publicly that Ogunleye is gone. That leaves Mark Anderson and Israel Idonije, neither of whom have shown they are capable of starting. (Idonije definitely has a lot of potential but, as usual, the Bears have wasted and not developed it.)

Brown is not a flashy end with a ton of sacks (again he's on the wrong side). But high character leaders like him are what championship teams are built on. The superstars are few and far between, even on championship teams.

Hey Rob is a good guard but he had is issue with the run. He's young but teams just don't give good guards away and fourth rounder is cheap. So he will have you pulling your hair out at times too. As a Hawks fan I wish he lived up to his potential here. Sometimes a new start is what one needs to get going in the right direction and I wish him well.

Seahawks fan here: Rob Sims sucks that's why the Hawks wanna get rid of him. Don't believe what they say about the Oline coach just wanting guys he's familiar with. The truth is Rob Sims has had many opportunities to show he belongs in the starting line up and he's never shown it. He started by default as a result of a GM who hasn't taken an offensive player in the first three rounds in who knows how many years. Oh btw, that GM was Tim Ruskell who might be joining the Bears front office. Good luck guys, you're gonna need it.

Randy Brown is easily worth 5 mil a year, 5 mil is not a lot for an end Bosch just got a contract paying him over 5 mil a year and he had 3 sacks last year. By the way stop looking at just sacks, it shows lack of insight into the position. Hits, pressures, stops, TFL's, all matter and are all key to the position. Peppers had four more sacks than Brown last year, and is making 20 million, so the Bears are paying 15 million extra for 4 sacks. I mean Randy if your talking money for Sacks, then Peppers only needs 24 sacks next year to prove he is just overpaid, not massivly overpaid. He made twice what Allen made last year and had fewer sacks then him.

Sims is a pretty solid player, not sure if he fits Tice's blocking scheme. Lucky for the bears they are not using Tice's schemes, they are using Martz's and it looks like he may fit. Sims is a much better pass block than he is a run blocker, and decent on screens. If they really don't want Sims they will cut him in june, if they don't cut him then offer a 4th for next year. If a team really doesn't want a player chances are they will not keep him, no need to throw away picks at this point. The Trib actually called him a big mauler type. Which tells you the trib has no clue, cause he is so not a mauler in the Tice mold. Jones also helped him out a lot on that line.

I think a lot of teams will wait for June before doing anything, if they don't want Sims they will cut him, just like the Bears will cut Brown if they have no takers. Thats what most teams are waiting for at this point in terms of the FA market. Teams will cut the guys with the big bonus money or contracts they no longer want.

Jags could use Brown, so could the Lions, Seattle, and NY could use him in a rotation with Osi Umenyiora who they have been having problems with.

With Borwns contract even if a team doesn't want to pay him 5 mil, on the open market he will still get at least 5 mil the first year of a new contract if not more. Vanden Bosch is getting 10 mil his first year with the Lions, 3 Sacks Randy. 7.5 sacks in two years for that guy. Yet he got 10 mil for this year.

An intresting thing to think about in term of the Bears D-line is the lineup. Lovie has said he is confident that Harris will return to form, but it has also been said that he want Peppers at LDE to help Harris. Well we have all seen a healthy Harris and a healthy Harris does not need help, a healthy Harris is the help. So if Lovie is so confident in Harris why does he need so much help. A healthy Harris should be doing the disruption and breaking the double teams on his side of the line. Anderson will not give Harris or Peppers any help and is a liability in the run game.

Peppers has been open about the fact that he prefers RDE or LDE and has also shown he is the type of player that when he doesn't get what he wants can be a problem. Getting rid of Brown shows that Peppers will probably get what he wants, if they try to hand the RDE position to Anderson I can't imagine that will make Peppers very happy sense Peppers knows he is the far better player. Also if they plan on flipping Peppers back and fourth you can bet he will be less effective, because Anderson would be in at RDE on passing downs while Izzy would be in at LDE on running downs. Meaning Peppers job of getting to the QB will not be in optimum pass rush situations. If its Peppers full time at RDE then Anderson will be called upon to run block more on passing downs and Izzy will be playing the run downs, adding predictablity to the defense. It would also mean Harris will not be getting any help making him less effective. Harris is also not going to help Anderson if a team decides to audible to the run and Izzy will not help Harris if the team audibles to a pass. The Bears have once again put themselves in a tight spot because one side of the D-Line no matter what they do has been down graded. Not to mention who is Tommie's backup now that Izzy is at end?

Wrigley;
Its not that we want to give up Brown, its that we need OG so bad. Yes, Brown is our best option opposite Peppers but what do we do about OG? The draft will take a couple years to develope an OG. Cutler and Taylor have to have that OG now. I watched the Mn. game and saw ID pressure from the left pretty good, I dont feel either he nor Anderson are as good as Brown but none of the 3 can play OG, our waekest position and one that will simply diffuse the FA offensive help we have picked up last 2 years.

Hawks fans:
Nice to hear from some class posters unlike the packers idiots that come on here just to holler drunk random thoughts. :P
Maybe Sims wasnt great there (maybe thats giving him alot of credit) but see who Da Bears have starting LG. A Tackle converted to OG that didnt get it, and a drafted G that couldnt beat out the converted Tackle. Not alot we have to bargain with, and OG are not our strong drafting point or we would start Beekman. So, Sims looks great from where we stand. :) Plus we can move that Tackle back to Tackle and be stronger at that position, kinda shore up 2 positions at once.

At least Angelo is thinking right since Martz came aboard.
We have to give something to get something, too bad Brown makes too much for 5-6 sacks per, but I would think some NFL Team would want him.
and yes I would only hope that Sims is better than what we got last year,

Did someone say that Holmgren tried to trade for Sims???? If so that says alot.

Wrigley:

I am with you on what Alex Brown is about and brings to the Bears. But, when it appears inevitable (the Bears are not letting Brown participate in team activities) until the trade either happens or washes out.

Wrigley, as I said if it is inevitable that Brown will be gone then why not get some value for Alex Brown? To obtain a proven NFL ready starting Left Guard in Rob Sims for a fourth round draft pick is a good thing and it does take care of two problems, left guard and right offensive tackle. I read that Sims was rated #8 best in 2009 by one of those ratings services, Holmgren wanted him, his strength is at pass protection which is right up there as to what Cutler needs with 7 step drops coming soon with Martz.

Yes, the d line I think will be slightly weaker against the run but should be fine against the pass and if Tommie Harris doesn't have a tantrum because he most likely will be upstaged by Peppers as the new star and Harris will no longer be the defensive lines top dog unless of course he produces and if Tommie Harris produces that would make the d line pretty damn good.

Seahawk fan here.
Sims is a really Big strong guard. He may blossom in an offense that uses a straight up blocking scheme. Seattle uses a zone blocking scheme which needs smaller faster guards to be successful.
He might flourish in Chicago.

The Seahawks are trying to get younger it makes no sense for the hawks to pick up Brown no matter how good he is

If he's good then why are they moving him. That should be the question everyone shouuld ask. It's not an issue of youth because he's still young. What gives?

Peppers had 10.5
Brown had 6
6 is nothing to be ashamed of.
But it's the Fear Factor of a player that gets 10 sacks consistently vs a 5-6 sack per year guy. The QB knows Peppers is there, does he worry about Brown like that? Thats where the 15 mil factors in. Cmon, Creighton dont try to compare Peppers to Brown, I know your not going there. If so why dont we just trade Brown for a ProBowl OG? The point of Brown vs Bosch is valid, except.. to me Brown is not worth 5 mil. I am looking at all the intangibles, I dont hear that he is a Thomas Jones in the locker room but he does play hard. Would I lose Brown? No. I feel as I said, that he is our best option at RDE Except for Peppers, and yes I would give the man I just laid out the Red Carpet for...what he wants as long as he is a happy Sacking Bear. Can Brown play LDE that good??? Can Brown play LOG as good as Omiyale? Maybe we should convert Brown to LOG? Brown is our best trade option. Who else do we offer? Olsen? He cant even get us a decent draft pick...Looks like Brown is trade bait. And yes I feel 5 mil is expendable for Brown, but I would keep him except for Sims or a facsimile thereof.

Why are the Hawks balking on Brown?? If he's so great?? and worth 5 mil? I feel its an even steven trade.. but for the 5 mil, the Hawks dont want to pay that either I guess.

that were me....

Again, we would not be having these discussions if Alex could play the left side as effectively as on the right. We have very few pieces to work with as far as bargaining chips, and Alex Brown is one of three I can see that might have some value around the league, along with Briggs and Olsen.

I say we sign Sims to an offer sheet. There is no way we get a better player in the 4th round, so we are ahead either way if we don't do the deal. Then we keep working to move Brown, and see if we can get the 4th rounder back later (or better, but not likely).

We are already making free agency our draft. Why not get better at 4 positions instead of 3, and only have free safety to work on for the draft?

Olsen is the guy to trade not Brown. He's soft and has next to no YAC. Kellen Davis is a better TE. If we deal for a guard, I say we move Beekman to starting center now. Hate to admit it, but Kruetz has lost more than a few steps. Yes, he's an all-decade center but he was a liability last year. Problem was most people didn't notice because Pace and Omiyale were even worse.

I think the Bears should trade THREE 4th round picks to Seattle for this guy. I'll personally pack the bags of Henry Melton, D.J. Moore, and Craig Steltz.

Seahawks season ticket holder.

Frankly, I think Rob Sims is EASILY worth a 4th round pick, if not a 3rd using this logic: half of 3rd rounders become starters, half backups. Half of 4th rounders become backups, the other half get cut.

The problem with Sims in Seattle was this: he was in the wrong system for 3 years, with last year's zone blocking scheme the worst.

I don't know much about Chicago's offense or running game. HOWEVER, Sims is best suited for a straight ahead, no-non-sense, no zone blocking scheme. He's a bulldozer/road grader that can flat-out level his man.

However, he doesn't have quick feet, so he struggles on the edge/sweeps, tosses, etc., and can get beat by quick DTs in the passing game. The Hawks have brought in Alex Gibbs, formerly of the Texans and the master of Denver's running game in the 90s. Gibbs wants smaller, quicker, more athletic guys who can zone block. This isn't Sims.

FWIW, Sims is a very intelligent and classy guy. And, HE WAS THE STRONGEST player on the team, by far, I think he benched 600+.

Oh, and he's one tough son-of-a-gun. He tore his left pectoral (peck/chest) muscle during the first quarter of a game, AND PLAYED THE ENTIRE GAME one handed. Literally, his off-arm just hung down and he didn't take any pain meds!

As for Brown, no thanks, unless it's for half the money. We'll still be paying Patrick Kerney's money who'll be cut this year and did nothing since hitting 30.

PS - The poster who commented on Tim Ruskell is right: this guy is a freakin' clown. KEEP HIM AS FAR AWAY from your organization as possible! His first year, the Hawks went to the Super Bowl WITH THE TEAM HOLMGREN and Bob Ferguson built; Ruskell added Tatupu and Joe Jerivicious, but TOOK CREDIT for getting the team to the Bowl! Each year after, the team got worse. Now, WE SUCK, AGAIN! 9 wins in 2 years ALL WHILE HAVING a QB in his prime and an AWESOME home field advantage. Oh, and the guy thinks he's God; probably thinks he'll mean more to the Bears than Ditka the day he's hired! Freakin' clown.

roflmao

Yeah, and we actually have alot more draft picks saved up for trade huh Blaxico? :P

Sims is far and away better than anything we have its stupid

Maybe were are going to have a reincarnation of the Three Stooges adding Ruskell to Angelo and Lovie Dovie.

That certainly does not surprise me, lets take a look at the Rocket Scientists that have coached and been in management positions with the Bears over the last 30 years.

HawkShawk, thanks for the information on Rob Sims. The press has indicated that Sims strength is his pass blocking ability is this true because with Martz I am sure pass blocking will be a requisite skill.

Dahlillama - You're welcome!

Re: Sims and pass blocking: If you have a strong Center (which we know ALL about your guy; he's a former Husky and I'm a UW alum) and/or an above average LT, Sims is fine in pass blocking.

While Sims doesn't need help strength wise - he can physically handle most DTs in the league, including the Williams' in MN - he often needs guys to chip block for him because he's not real quick.

So, what was happening in Seattle is that we had 2-3 backups playing since Walter Jones was out, Spencer, our crappy Center was out, and then we were down a Guard. So the line line started shrinking their gaps to the point where there feet, often times, were nearly touching. They were intentionally collapsing the pocket because the guys were good enough to play straight up. This left the edges open and, EVEN WITH the tighter spacing, guys were still beat up the middle.

On a whole, I think Sims is a solid/average guard. He'll never sniff a Pro Bowl, but he could be a 10 year starter that no one outside of the city he's playing for knows anything about.

Again, in my mind, if he fits your system, he's EASILY worth a 4th, if not a 3rd. In fact, a 4th seems like a steal to me.

PS - I think the Bears made the BEST MOVE OF ANY TEAM, BAR NONE, of the off-season in hiring Mike Martz.

Seriously, we've seen him in the division for the past 8 years. The guys is a FANTASTIC, PHENOMENAL Offensive Coordinator. And, his play calling fits PERFECTLY with Cutler's skill set.

Point blank: If your line can give Cutler 4+ seconds of protection per attempt, he'll average 300+ yards and 2+ TDs a game.

Martz comes across as a joking/"players" coach and kind of has that goofy look. But, HE WAS THE REAL ROOT of the Rams success with Warner, Holt, Faulk, etc. He was running 25 yard deep crossing in routes that even average receivers (i.e. Ricky Proehl) would get open on. NO ONE threw these routes consistently before Martz. He's a borderline offensive genius.

And frankly, he was a LOT BETTER head coach than many people give him credit for. The Rams just didn't restock the talent. I, for one, am VERY GLAD he's out of the division. He was turning around Alex Smith last year in SF, which most thought was impossible.

Randy,

I know we need offensive linemen and especially a left guard. But giving up a starting defensive end who's 1) a good player and 2) a high character guy who's also a team leader, in exchange for a guard is zero sum at best and probably not even that. You've got to consider the intangible factors, they're sometimes more important than how well a player performs physically.

Dahli and Randy,

What does getting rid of Brown have to do with getting a guard? Seattle has already said it might deal Sims but is not interested in Brown. And why do you think it's worth losing Brown's play AND his intangibles just to get a guard?

Wrigley:

The Bears already announced they are moving Alex Brown, my (complaining) about it certainly is not going to change things with Brown. All I am saying if you read my blog is get some value for Brown if it is inevitable.

The other point is this is Lovie, he wants to make Peppers happy so he is going to give Peppers the Right DE position that was Brown's. From all indications there is real question whether Brown could transition to the left side DE role. Therefore, c-above comment.

If Lovie would make sure that Peppers played left DE then keeping Brown would make a lot more sense. It is obvious that they are planning for Idonije and Anderson to play the left side instead of Peppers because he has stated he likes the right side better and it is the usual blind side of the QB, therefore making the QB's ge thappy feet because they can feel Peppers coming but can't see him. AWESOME!!!!

P.S. All of the great things said about Alex Brown are all true but try to understand the message above.

Wrigley:
Same as Dahli. :)
Except I would probably keep Brown and try him at LDE, but if it didnt work out, (and I have a feeling that Lovie already knows this) then we would be hosed and in the same boat.
But, Brown is really the only player we have to trade. except Briggs.
Would I trade Briggs? Yes! for OG help, and we do have pretty good LB waiting in the wings though.

Hawk:
Yeah, I remember those cross patterns very well, Warner would sometimes throw the ball low/behind the WR and it was as if the WR knew he was going to do that, They would slide low to the ground and scoop up the ball and continue running. Pretty amazing stuff there.

Dahli,

What? The Bear brass doesn't listen to us? They hired Abe Gibron for head coach when we insisted on it! Seriously, I get your point, but I'll continue to express my anger at this bonehead move.

Randy,

I can't imagine a realistic scenario where it's worth giving up a high character guy for anyone. Losing the intangibles that Brown brings will cost games, regardless of whether the Bears improve on the offensive line. Since you said you'd keep him and try him at LDE, we're on the same page. He might be too small for that side, but his forte is stopping the run, which is much more important on the left defensive side than on the right where he's played his whole career.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: Anderson at LDE?! God help us.

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This page contains a single entry by Sean Jensen published on March 27, 2010 7:51 PM.

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