Chicago Sun-Times

KC Joyner sees bright things ahead for the Bears

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BOURBONNAIS, Ill.--For all the readers who believe KC Joyner has nothing but gloom and doom predicted for the Bears this season, he's got a new post for you to digest.

Writing for the Fifth Down Blog at the New York Times, Joyner expands on what he's said in the past, that running back Matt Forte is the next Brian Westbrook. As we pointed out here before, Joyner's analysis shows that Roberto Garza was one of the more effective run-blocking guards in the league last season and Josh Beekman wasn't too far off.

Joyner also projects a big season for Greg Olsen and says that the matchups this season will be favorable for him.

He likes the addition of defensive line coach Rod Marinelli, just like just about everyone else who follows the game.

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"He likes the addition of defensive line coach Rod Marinelli, just like just about everyone else who follows the game."

Ouch! Is that a dig at us skeptics Brad? Fine, fine...fair enough. Sorry if some us fans aren't going to kneel at the feet of a position coach because we know better.

I'm glad Marinelli impressed you so much by doing things like changing signs on the doors at Halas Halls (The room that used to read d-linemen? It now reads "Rush-Men." Oh goody goody gum drops! I guess we'll be averaging 20 sacks a game now because some frickin' signs were changed on a frickin' door.) But you keep believing what you will Biggs; even though good old Rod never even developed a DE in his career. What? The Messiah? No! Stop with this nonsense Mike! We Sheeple don't like hearing the truth!

And I'd just like to add, was anyone impressed with Don Johnson when he was here? Does anyone even know who he is?

On to KC Joyner. We don't think he's gloom and doom, Brad. We just think he's a certified idiot. Remember his words: Bears fans will miss Rex Grossman now that we have Cutler. You can't take anyone who writes that seriously. Then there's his "near interceptions" stat and his linemen stat which say Garza was one of the best guards in the NFL. I would like to know how Garza missed the pro-bowl if he was so darn incredible and how Chicago's run game ranked 24th overall.

: )

This has rekindled my lack of interest ...

Joyner is trying to kiss and make up now, after his overblown criticism of Jay Cutler, which was based on his bogus (completely subjective) "bad decision rate."

I don't think Bears fans are so fickle as to say, hey, okay, now we like you too, cause you seem to like everyone else on the team. Puleaze, can we just quit hearing about that clown.

Joyner never said that Cutler would make Bears fans miss Grossman. He said that the interceptions Cutler throws will remind fans of Rex Grossman. Joyner never said that Cutler and Grossman were comparable NFL talents. He said that they share a similar propensity to force passes into tight coverage due, in part, to a sense of confidence in the strength and accuracy of the their respective arms.
It would be fantastic if the individuals who post responses to this blog would exhibit, at the very least, a basic understanding of the English language. The posts on this particular board, thus far, indicate one of two things: a complete misunderstanding of Joyner's analysis or a complete misrepresentation of Joyner's analysis. Both are irritating, and, in my opinion, the former is more irritating than the latter.
From here on out, I would appreciate if those who post would please read the material with an inquisitive vigor that lends itself to logical, thoughtful posts.

Now he's on to the obvious statements, so he can point to them and say, "I called it" with regard to Forte and Olsen. It is what most sportswriters do after they go out on a limb to criticize. It's like the guys who hit layups and 7 foot jumpers when playing HORSE. They try some big shots too, and miss most of them, but they hope to nickel and dime you on the easy shots, thinking you will lose focus and miss a short one, and make up for the long ones...

A couple of noteworthy comments about statistics for your enjoyment....

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Benjamin Disraeli

Statistician: A man who believes figures don't lie, but admits that under analysis some of them won't stand up either.
Evan Esar

If you want to inspire confidence, give plenty of statistics. It does not matter that they should be accurate, or even intelligible, as long as there is enough of them.
Lewis Carroll

Not everything that can be counted counts; and not everything that counts can be counted.
George Gallup

There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you look up, and the kind you make up.
- Rex Stout

Just some extra perspective on the wonderful world of statistics, where just about anything can be proven, if you have the right amount of ambiguous data...

Personally, I think the was Cutler “will make Bears fans remember Rex Grossman”. I took the inference to be Cutler was a strong armed QB who will throw some picks. Jay should play well, however, JA neglected the offensive line for quite a while.

I think his Westbrook comparison is almost as wrong as his Grossman comparison. Westbrook is so shifty and elusive - he makes guys miss - and he has amazing vision and an ability to set up his blocks and set up defenders to put them out of position. Forte is a great all-around back, and he can be effective catching a lot of passes, but he's not going to do what Westbrook does and he doesn't move like Westbrook does.

He's right about Olsen, though.

By Alex on August 3, 2009 9:59 PM
"Joyner never said that Cutler would make Bears fans miss Grossman."

Oh shoot, Alex. You caught me. I guess I was just making things up again just to get attention. I'm sorry everyone but luckily Alex was diligent enough to point out my sheer abundance of mistakes and-

Oh wait, what's this here?

"I've said it many times and I'll say it again, Cutler will make Bears fans remember Rex Grossman,'' Joyner said. "He'll make just as many crazy passes but won't suffer the Grossman fate because Chicago's fan base is so in love with him that they will forgive the nutty throws he makes in ways that they never forgave Grossman."

So anyway Alex, I see that you've made up two groups of people that you dislike: Those that misunderstand and those that misrepresent Joyner's "analysis." May I recommend a third group? Those who think they know what they're talking about, but really don't, and in the end they just look like total morons? Man, I so dislike that third group! Ugh!


Theres a BIIIGGG difference between the two words, Miss and Remember!
So, saying Cutler will make Bears fans MISS Rex Grossman is grossly different that saying Cutler will make Bears fans REMEMBER Rex Grossman. The point of proving your point is not to make yourself look like a douche.

AND I WOULD TAKE YOU WIPPER SNAPPERS...and so and so.... OH I am sorry. I thought we could actually not be a MOB that can take it as it comes. Listen, we all love the blue and orange. Get IT! This guy named Mike( I seriously hope I am not related! ) is OK with pathetically trying to lay out his team. HAVE THINGS GOTTEN THIS BAD IN THE ONLY TOWN THAT DESERVES A TEAM LIKE THE BEARS! YOU LET THIS JAMOKE JUDGE OUR GAMES?! I have watched us win and lose and lose and lose again to the point where we end up loving the charachter of "the Mac".Dont get me wrong I still own his cards and love watching him bitch smack reporters when we get even near the game.But he actually showed us what it meant..... and still makes us remember. That is what he gave his team, and what he gives us today. I love the it all. Ups and downs. GET IT?

@ Mike

While I agree with you on the rest, I feel your assessment of Marinelli (like many of his other critics in these spaces) is fundamentally flawed. When you look at how his linemen performed with him vs. without him, they were consistantly better with Rod. Also, when you say he never developed anyone, you also have to ask whether ANYONE was able to develope that football player or whether it was a miss by the scouting dept, as Angelo and others have confirmed over the years when they've moved on to other teams. Then you have to ask who out there has a better track record of production for this scheme?

Mike some people never learn. First if I recall Mike never said Rod would be a bad line coach, me and him both agreed when they hired him that he was a awful head coach. We also both stated that he never coached up DE and that while in Tamp he was given a ton of talent and first round picks to develop. Being given Sapp, Rice and Culpepper as 3 of your starters plus 3 or 4 first round picks and then having a very good line is not a miracle. It should be a really good line, look at the talent. Rod is known as a guy who pushes the basics and work ethic. Thats his style and it's a good style when you have talent. What he has never done is take a club with average talent and make them a great line. Maybe not great players but a great line. He has never done that in his career. He was hands on with the line in detroit and he hand picked those guys, did you notice how many tampa guys where in detroit last year?

Finally the main point Mike and I both stressed was it did not matter how good Rod is as a coach, he is not a doctor and last I checked Harris is still doing limited practice. Also the motivator managed to motivate Harrison into being out of shape. You will notice nobody is being blown away by Anderson or even talking about him, in fact you are not hearing a lot about the ends at all. What you are hearing is that the guys who are healthy and in shape are working out hard.

Has anyone heard anyone say Harris looks like old Harris again? Nope. Has anyone said boy the Harrison came in ready to work? Nope. I guess the great motivator got his but kicked by Crispy Creme. Cause he is a legendary motivator, right? He's got Harris working part time. Wooo friggin who. Oh he did put a sign up above their study room, "Rush Men" well now that changes everything. They're all fixed.

Whats next will he give them new nick names in hopes that they will become those names. Let me know when the line has a pass rush, cause the last two years it as been missing. Maybe hot Rod found under Harrisons over sized @$$ which he is suppose to be motivating. Cause thats what he does.

Joyner did compare Grossman and Cutler. With his mysterious "near interception" stat he "proved" that Cutler and Grossman were the same. I have never found out exactly what he counts as a near int.

Seriously if we believe that Rod would make the bears defense better we are crazy A coach who will go down as having the worst team in NFL history will be the savior for a defense that could not stop the run or pass last year especially when it mattered we are pushing it.

KC Joyner deserves to get no respect for some of the ship he serves out to Bears fans or to all NFL fans in general.

What is a near interception and who cares?

Who cares if Garza can run block or not, last time I looked a lineman needed to run block and pass block to be somewhat competent. You should just not judge a lineman based on one area of their responsibility or are the Bears going to start rotating offensive guards in when its pass blocking time instead of run blocking time? NOT!

Graham got roasted by Joyner, Graham was far better than his poor rating by Joyner.

I rate Joyner as a NFL joke!!! HARDY HAR HAR!!!

By Tony on August 4, 2009 12:12 AM
Mike, Theres a BIIIGGG difference between the two words, Miss and Remember!

Oh yeah? So when someone says I miss my childhood can't the word "miss" be construed to mean "fondly remember?" I fondly remember my childhood? Man, what a BIIIGGG difference there is between those two words. Yup. But anyway, thanks for playing.

GetDownBears, I didn't know nursing homes had internet access.

Mike, are you Creighton? Because you two write alike. If not, my apologies. But anyway, Mike, I think you oughta stop tring to discredit whoever you disagree with to make your point. I think your trying to be creative to come up with these one-liners, aside from being not interesting or funny, actually detracts from the point you're trying to make, which I think is really valid. Our defense hasn't shown much the last 2 years, and we haven't seen much change in personnel of the kind that might instill confidence in us fans.

However, I still think the guys on the line have it in them to return the Bears' D to respectability (although maybe not to dominance), and I think Rod Marinelli can help with that, with what we now have.

By the way, did you know that the Lions actually had 2 more sacks than the Bears last year.

And I thought I was the only person who thought that someone was too busy trying to be a comedy writer than a football fan. From now on everyone will play word association and when they think of a "failed comedy writer" they will also think of the word @$$. Anyway, I am not going to condemn Marinelli because he did have a G.M. in Detroit who admittedly didn't know his head from his failed comedy writer. Buddy Ryan is still an Icon even though he never won a playoff game as a head coach or beat the Bears. It didn't take away from the fact that he was a great coordinator who was in over his head as a head coach. You don't have to be great to make a difference or to get a few players to excel a little more than the next guy. I won't come out and call Marinelli a bum because when Coach Smith got the head coach job he wanted to to bring Rod on board as the coordinator but was blocked by Tampa. The guy is well thought of by owners looking for a great football mind. I also feel good knowing that we actually beat out a few teams to get him to be the D line coach. When a guy blogging on here gets a job as a coordinator or even as a ball boy then I will feel honored that we were blessed with his greatness indulging us with their abundance of knowledge.

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This page contains a single entry by Brad Biggs published on August 3, 2009 6:24 PM.

DT Marcus Harrison hopeful to be cleared for practice by Saturday was the previous entry in this blog.

Haley looking to collect ex-Bears wideouts in Kansas City? is the next entry in this blog.

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