Chicago Sun-Times

Joyner: "Fans are treating Cutler differently than Grossman or Orton"

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KC Joyner received such a spirited response from Bears and Jay Cutler followers last week in his online chat at ESPN.com that he's back with more analysis, this time on the New York Times' blog The FIfth Down.

Joyner's comment that Cutler "will make Bears fans remember Rex Grossman'' has sparked controversy here and in plenty of other places, including ProFootballTalk.com. Joyner says that Cutler is a risk taker who will win some games for the Bears with his aggressive approach and lose some for them as well. Cue the fireworks.

"I understand that fan scrutiny comes with the territory, so I don't mind that, but what I don't understand is why those fans are treating Cutler differently than they did either Grossman or Kyle Orton. Grossman was on fire during the first part of Chicago's Super Bowl season, and yet as soon as he had the bad game against Miami, it seemed the entire city turned on him. It didn't go that much differently for Orton. He had a tremendous start to the 2008 season, but when he struggled down the stretch, the populace seemed to say goodbye and good riddance without much of a second thought."

Joyner points out that while Cutler passed for more than 4,500 yards in Denver last season, he was second in the league with 616 attempts and his yards per attempt on vertical throws was 9.8 yards, 20th in the league. The stat that has readers here most agitated is the bad decision rate of 4.6 percent with Joyner defining a bad decision as one that leads to a turnover or a near turnover. Presumably (we're interested in learning more about this), it doesn't include a ball that goes off a wide receiver's shoulder pads and bounces 10 feet to the nearest defender before being intercepted. The bottom line is we don't have those numbers in front of us other than the 4.6 percent rate for Cutler was worst in the league.

One of the common replies, at least here, to all of this has been that Cutler played with one of the worst defenses imaginable on an 8-8 Broncos team and had to keep chucking the ball to try to keep his team in games. (Every quarterback is going to make more mistakes when they are playing from behind). Denver's defense was 29th in yards allowed and 30th in points allowed. The good folks at Football Outsiders ranked the defense 31st in the league, so we can agree it was sufficiently lousy.

What we do have are some interception totals and to best look at the information we pulled the numbers for the 20 quarterbacks with the most attempts in the league last season, and we grabbed the 2006 numbers for Rex Grossman just for the sake of comparison. To help put it in perspective, we also list the record of the quarterback's team to try and give and idea how often they might have been playing in a game with a lead. For instance, St. Louis quarterback Marc Bulger threw only one interception with the lead last season. He had 12 when the Rams were trailing and one when the game was tied. Well, St. Louis won only two games. How often did Bulger even play with a lead? The chart shows how many picks each quarterback threw with the lead, trailing and when the score was tied.

QB (Team Record) Pass Attempts Interceptions Leading-Trailing-Tied

Drew Brees (8-8) 635 17 1-13-3
Jay Cutler (8-8) 616 18 5-12-1
Kurt Warner (9-7) 598 14 3-9-2
Donovan McNabb (9-6-1) 571 11 2-7-2
Peyton Manning (12-4) 555 12 3-7-2
Aaron Rodgers (6-10) 536 13 2-10-1
David Garrard (5-11) 535 13 0-11-2
Brett Favre (9-7) 522 22 9-9-4
Matt Cassel (11-5) 516 11 3-5-3
Jason Campbell (8-8) 506 6 1-4-1
Eli Manning (12-4) 479 10 4-5-1
Philip Rivers (8-8) 478 11 1-6-4
Chad Pennington (11-5) 476 7 2-4-1
Ben Roethlisberger (12-4) 469 15 6-6-3
Kyle Orton (9-7) 465 12 4-7-1
Tony Romo (9-7) 450 14 5-4-5
Marc Bulger (2-14) 440 13 1-12-0
Matt Ryan (11-5) 434 11 3-4-4
Joe Flacco (11-5) 428 12 2-7-3
Tyler Thigpen (2-14) 420 12 3-8-1
*Rex Grossman (13-3) 480 3-12-5

* Grossman's 2006 numbers

What does it all say? Well, we're not convinced any definitive conclusions can be made from the chart but maybe you can draw something from it. Only Favre and Roethlisberger threw more picks while their team was in the lead than Cutler did. During the Bears' 2006 Super Bowl season Grossman had 20 interceptions and only three came with the Bears in front although five more came with the score tied.

The bottom line is the Bears are better with Cutler, and Joyner and others believe the quarterback still needs to improve. Imagine what it would be like if they still had a quarterback being ignored by the masses. No one was rushing to break down the three-headed monster that was Jonathan Quinn-Craig Krenzel-Chad Hutchinson. Who paid attention when the Quarterback Clown Car had a parking spot front and center at Halas Hall?

"The only reason I can come up with as to why Bears fans are reacting like this is that the quarterback position has been such a headache for them over the years that they will do just about anything to make it go away,'' Joyner wrote. "If that means ignoring Cutler's shortcomings so that at least one off-season goes by without having to wonder if their quarterback's play will measure up, they'll do it just for the temporary peace of mind. I do admire that kind of team passion and loyalty, but I'd admire it a bit more if it were done by hoping that Cutler could improve his game rather than by backing his mixed bag of performance history."

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43 Comments

If this were really true, then Grossman would be a starter and Joyner would be a GM.

Taken another way, this analysis suggests than Orton and Grossman are about the same and I don't believe that either. If that were true then why didn't Denver just dump Culter and pick up Grossman?

Ridiculous.

This guy is simply taking a contrarian stance on a high profile issue to shill his new book that comes out in oh, 3 weeks.

He loves the press.

Its very simple he went to the probowl last year. When is the last time a Bears quarterback went there. Sure he is unproven with his wins and losses, but we finaly have the possition taken care of with a solid body. I dont have a problem going through ups and downs with him I will stand by him for years. Sure we bashed Wrexs but after 3-4 years of torment.

ok, so jay cutler's INT percentage was 2.92% last year, orton's was 2.58%. cutler's TD percentage was 4.06%, orton's was 3.87%. i don't think those are damning numbers at all. i think the most important stat is the actual numbers of TD's and INT's. cutler threw 7 more touchdowns and 6 more interceptions. those 7 TD's led to (probably) 49 points while the 6 extra INT's could have only led to a maximum of 42, which i highly doubt. i wonder if that stat can be found anywhere. even with the broncos bad defense i'm sure not all of cutler's INT's led to points. with the bears D, the ratio should be smaller and he should be playing with more leads.

also think about the flipside of the equation. how much better could the bears D be if they are playing with a lead? hopefully cutler will make that a frequent occurrence.

opinions are like***holes everyones got one...

I don't know who K.C. Joyner is but his "analysis/comparison" of Cutler to Grossman is ludicrous.

While there is no question that Cutler needs to either cut down on his interceptions or significantly increase his TD-to-INT ratio, his passing numbers so far are clearly superior to Grossman's:

Comp.% Cutler 62.3, Grossman 54.2
YPA Cutler 7.40 Grossman 6.41
INTPERATT Cutler 1/20 Grossman 1/14
TDPERATT Cutler 1/15 Grossman 1/15
QB RATING Cutler 86 Grossman 70

Are there areas for Cutler to improve upon? Of course.

That last paragraph from KC Joyner makes it appear as though he's calling us as Bears fans stupid. The way I see it, if he had just said that Cutler is an upgrade over previous quarterbacks in Chicago, but he still has room for improvement, then Bears fans would have agreed. However, the original article said something like Cutler's play will remind us of Grossman. To me, it's as if he's saying that because we haven't had a good quarterback since Sid Luckman, that we don't know how to evaluate a quarterback. I disagree completely, and apparently many of my Bear brethren do too. And to our credit, the free agent market proved our point. Every team in the league had a shot at Rex Grossman starting March 1, but he didn't sign with Houston until after June!

Apparently the rest of the league remembers a couple key issues not included in Brad's post about interceptions:
1.Rex was short and slow and could only throw downfield because he couldn't see over the line, so the defense could just take away the deep pass.
2.Rex had a million fumbles.
3.He liked to run backwards to avoid the rush.


Solely going off of Interceptions thrown while trailing isn't enough, there are three factors within the trailing category that should be presented with this info; Score (if you're down 49-14 what did that INT really do?), time of game (if you're down 10-7 going into half and throw a hail mary INT, does that reflect on your decision making) and opp pts off INT. These three factors must be taken together, before you could just say oh this guy threw 12 INT's while his team was behind.

I don't see how Joyner fails to understand the city's short fuse on Grossman. His analysis starts in '06, but what of the previous, injury-plagued, nightmarish seasons? Grossman had done literally nothing to merit his first-round status in his first 3 seasons in the league (though, I guess he did a great job in following team tradition towards being another bust). He also had one of the best defenses in the league to clean up his mess in '06; the fact that the '06 team lost only 3 games until the one that mattered simply masks his mediocrity that year.

All I'm saying is, if he were a Bears fan watching his 6-0 football team get massacred by the lowly Dolphins due partially to some really inept quarterback play he'd have second thoughts, too.

Cutler only throws interceptions slightly more often than the average quarterback. Last year there were interceptions thrown on about 2.8% of all passes (465/16526), which means that an average QB would throw about 17 interceptions in 616 attempts. Cutler threw 18. In his career, he has thrown 37 interceptions when we would've expected an average QB to throw about 34. That's not a good thing, but it will hardly prevent him from succeeding. It hasn't so far: Football Outsiders rated him as the 7th best passer in the league this year, with a DVOA of 22.0% over average, and the 9th best the year before with a DVOA of 19.4% (min 200 attempts).

That means that Joyner's case against Cutler rests on his high "near interception" rate, which is a stat that isn't publicly available and is hard to evaluate. Has Cutler just been getting lucky with defenders dropping easy interceptions? Does he throw a lot of passes in tight quarters that defenders can get a hand on but which aren't easy to catch (but which Joyner still counts as near interceptions)? Are we sure that Joyner is being consistent in terms of what counts as a near interception and what's just a pass that's broken up?

I still think Joyner is off the mark. I don't think the reason that the fans gave up on Grossman is because he took too many risks with his passing. The reason they gave up on him was his inability to hold up under pressure and blitzes. Opposing defenses learned they could rattle him and cause to him to be ineffective and even force mistakes. And Grossman could simply not overcome this. Fans loved his arm and moxie, but he became a liability. Cutler doesn't appear to have this problem.

I don't know...Cutler might have taken some chances and maybe cost his team a game or two but I don't see any 23.7, 10.2, 1.3??? or a 0.0 rating on any of Cutlers stats. Taking chances is one thing but Grossman made you scratch your head a handful of times every Sunday. Yes...I'm pretty excited to have Cutler. Thanks KC!

Brad, why doesn't anybody ask KC Joyner to break down Peyton Manning's first five seasons in the NFL? Last time I checked, Manning had exactly 100 interceptions over his first 5 seasons (including 23 in year 4 out of 547 passing attempts), but he's turned into a mature QB. If Joyner emphasized his point that Cutler is a young QB who will make mistakes like Grossman BUT has a far higher ceiling and can grow out of his proneness to mistakes the way Manning did, us Bears fans wouldn't have as much a problem with him.

three times Biggs? Really? You're moving from tool territory into categories whose descriptions can't be printed here. Stop talking about Joyner. We get it he starts this mess and wants to keep explaining why we're overacting and he's not the bad guy. How could you follow up that great pass rush piece with this piece of...

Joyner you are wrong, I started hating Rex after the Arizona game.

Brad, the thing I think that isn't being considered is Rex's fumbilitis. That's really what made him into a turnover machine. I'm curious how often Cutler fumbles. It can't nearly be as bad as Rex was.

And if Cutler fumbles a lot more this year than previous years, we should be able to say that Kreutz's snaps are the problem.

Only Favre and Roethlisberger threw more pics with their team in the lead than Cutler? Well what does it say that they both played for teams with far better defenses than did Cutler and still threw more pics? And both these guys have won Super Bowls. Cutler's ratio of balls thrown to interceptions is very respectable. Nobody's claiming that Drew Brees will remind anyone of Rex Grossman. Yet with 19 more passes than Cutler, he threw only one less interception.

This is all kind of silly. Joyner uses a non-existent play ("near interception") to justify a non-existent argument. But I guess it entertains us during the slow summer months.

We don't care about your admiration, KC; we don't want it and never asked for it. Stop pooping on our party.

Exactly, Brad. Bottom line, the Bears are better with Cutler. End of story.

Brad,
Thank you for at least acknowledging the defense component of the issue. You have added to the debate and done so in an interesting and analytical manner - one which I would have expected from someone that dubs himself a "Football Scientist."

Instead, and the source of my gripe with him, Joyner gives only perfunctory mention of the defensive facet of the decision making process in his latest column, not the data you have provided. This is most likely because the data doesn't support his position. He makes only a passing reference to Denver's defensive performance before Cutler took the helm. He clearly doesn't read his mutual fund prospectuses or he would know that 'past performance is no indicator of future returns.' Did the Dolphins going 1-15 in 2007 prevent them from winning their division last year in '08?

It's unfortunate that Joyner commits this cardinal sin of statistical analysis because up until now I've enjoyed his writing and the Moneyball-esque dimension that he's added to the NFL conversation. However, I now fear that by so staunchly defending his position and doing so in the manner he has rather than with your approach above, he will only provide ammunition to those who claim statistics are manipulated to meet the ends of those who produce them.

No Jake Delhomme in that list? I wonder where that guy ended up on those stats?

I can't believe this guy keeps opening his mouth? When I first read the story over the weekend I decided to google him as I've never heard of him. The self proclaimed "The Football Scientist". Well after getting a chuckle out of the search I then went to a website called pro-football-reference and started comparing Cutlers first three seasons with other star qb's seasons. Cutler ranks right up towards the top in almost every category. How can you honestly compare Cutler to Grossman?

Good luck with your book sales... If it's anything like the garbage you wrote here I would probably look at a career in scrapbooking....

If Joyner is employing such ridiculous argument as "near interceptions" shouldn't there be "nearly not interception"? When a ball is thrown well and it is tipped or goes through WRs hands right into DBs lap?

Orton SUCKS!!!!!!.....See, I told all you losers out there!!....just wait until he is riding the pine in Denver!! He will not be the starting QB at seasons end!!

This is such BS, nobody really got on Rex until the last game of the 2006 season when Rex said he didn't prepare for the game. He was supported but between the second half of 2006 and the first half or 2007 the guy had like 9 bad games and has looked awful sense. Even in the playoffs when he looked good against the Saints a team with no defense, he then went and looked brutal against the Colts(butterfingers). Proof can be seen in how the entire league felt about him as a free agent and how people felt about Cutler and who wanted to trade for him.

How long are people suppose to give a player who has been stinking it up? What 6 years is too short, should we just have kept Rex as our QB no matter how bad he was, just cause he is Rex?

"Joyner points out that while Cutler passed for more than 4,500 yards in Denver last season, he was second in the league with 616 attempts and his yards per attempt on vertical throws was 9.8 yards, 20th in the league."

As for his stats, what Joyner doesn't say is that the WCO offense is a passing offense that rely's on short passing and yards after the Catch. It's a short passing offense and Joyner knows this but he put his foot in his mouth and is now trying to make excuses. Why doesn't he put up how Elway and Montana did in the WCO with their Vertical throws. By the way Favre has 9.5 yards per vertical attempt, so Cutler beats him. Not bad company. Joyner doesn't want to say that passing oriented offenses tend to have a lower yards per attempt in passing, thats actually normal, because they pass so much instead of running. But why give the whole story when you can just make up stats like the near miss stat. Or the almost intercepted but lucky it was a TD stat. The guy is a stroke. Oops, to soon?

"The majority of West Coast Offense routes occur within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage. 3-step and 5-step drops by the quarterback to take the place of the run and force the opposing defense to commit their focus solely on those intermediate routes."

"The stat that has readers here most agitated is the bad decision rate of 4.6 percent with Joyner defining a bad decision as one that leads to a turnover or a near turnover."

How did Cutler beat out Romo?

Oh and who decides if it was a bad choice, Joyner? It's another made up stat by Joyner to try and defend his position. I would love to sit down and debate this clown. Talking about Rex like from day one he had it rough. Rex stank and had about 10 good games in his whole 6 year career, don't give me no BS that this town didn't support him, he was here for 6 years and was bad for most of it. When Rex has a bad game he has a real bad game and he tends to have them in bunches. 6 years man, 6 years, how much blood to people want from Chicago fans? He got his shot and he blew it.

Why is it everyone always thinks Chicago is suppose to cater to crap players(yeah i am talking about the cubs in particular)? If Rex was in Philly how do think they would have treated him, those clowns boo McNabb when he has a good game, or NY, or Pitt, or Dallas, do you think they would put up with Rex in Dallas were they already want to get rid of Romo. You want to be a winner then you act like a winner, you want to be a looser then you act like Joyner and make excuses. Heck even SF has all but admitted Smith sucks and he has only been with them 4 years. Brad tell Dr. ZZZZ to go bug the Philly fans.

I got a new stat for Joyner, it's called the Cutler rules stat. It states that Cutler will be awsome as long has he has a decent defense, running game and is not forced to pass the ball an insane amount of times, or forced to try and win every game all by himself.

Brad wasn't Dr. ZZZZZZZ A Orton fan? He also picked the Vikings to win it all last year and thinks the world of Jackson. By the way the guy works for SI, thats all that really needs to be said. Whats funny is Z is usually the first guy to admit his predictions are garbage. I guess he likes the attention from this, it must be new to him sense the only thing keeping SI alive is the Swimsuit issue.

JeffB has it right: Grossman's biggest problem, though there were many, is that he started playing scared, beginning with the "Bears are who we thought they were" game. I knew Grossman had serious problems after the New England game and I expressed those concerns publicly, though I still felt there was a chance he could improve and turn into a good QB. But Grossman never got better, and the more opposing defenses pressured him, the worse he got. Add his inability to read defenses, lack of mobility, and lack of any feel for the pass rush, and you have the recipe for disaster that became Rex Grossman.

Saying that Bear fans turned on Grossman after the Miami game is wrong. While some people expressed serious concerns about him after that game, it wasn't until a horrible first half in the championship game and a totally bad Super Bowl game that fans really started really complaining. When Grossman started 2007 as bad or worse than he'd been in 2006, fans knew it was over and got on him.

But that all said, I do not in any way support the bad treatment Rex Grossman got from some fans before and during the 2008 season. Booing him at a practice and when he came onto the field for an exhibition game were inexcusable, and I'm embarrassed by the behavior of the fans who did that. Grossman was always professional and a team player even after he was benched, with the one exception of the Green Bay game at the end of the 2006 season. I have nothing against the guy personally and hope he succeeds in Houston or elsewhere, though I don't think he will.

The only thing this proves is that Joyner needs to retire.
If his conclusions were so accurate, Grossman would be starting for another team.
Fact is...every team in the league knows how to play against Grossman.
You put pressure on him, he gets rattled, he throws the ball to the other opponent or fumbles the ball to the other opponent.

Now...where do those numbers come in with Joyner's argument.
Joyner! go to sleep. you won't make it as an analyst....or anything else related to football. You are just an ole fart.

As a die-hard Bronco fan who hated to see the way the whole Bronco-Cutler debacle unfolded- Chicago fans ought to relax. They have one heck of a QB in Cutler. Sure he has some areas to improve in- most young players do- that just means he hasn't hit his peak yet. But give him good field position, a good defense- and some weapons and protection on offense and he will be an exciting QB for years to come. Does that mean perennial Super Bowls- perhaps - but I doubt it- Payton Manning has only been to one- but does that mean that the Bears finally have a quarterback to build a team around? I think so. But for me and my Broncos- I'm counting for great things from Kyle Orton and Company.He's our QB now and he's the one I'm cheering for on Sundays. Good Luck Bears. Go Broncos!!!!

The only thing more idiotic than KC's views on Rex is Rex's inability not to fumble a snap. Clearly Rex has back-peddled his way into KC's mind.

I heard about these KC Joyner the other day and all I have to say is that they are insane. One of his main arguments is that the only reason he threw for that many yards is because he had the 2nd most attempts. Then he goes on to talk about how grossman and cutlers int numbers are similar. You just made my argument for me joyner yes they are similar but cutler throws the ball twice as much!

Here is the big difference between Grossman and Cutler, Jay can at least take snaps from under center without fumbling at least once a game. I know one thing, I have never seen cutler have 6 turnovers in one game, saw Rex do that at least once (Arizona '06). The fact is Cutler is calm in the pocket, doesn't run backwards to get away from pressure, and doesn't fumble everytime he is hit.

As for Orton, though he did play decent last year, he gives us nothing in terms of a playmaking QB. I saw him underthrow Marty Booker on quite a few deep throws last year. You can't get it in front of Marty Booker? Come on. Orton has also had problems with turnovers, I was at a game where he threw 5 picks. I have never heard of Cutler doing that.

Fact is Chicago should be happy because we finally have someone to go in the huddle and command an offense. We finally have a QB who can make plays and not have to rely on D and special teams to save him.

WORST TRADE in the history of the Bears was the one for Cutler. We simply gave up too much. However, I hope I'm way wrong on this one.

Joyner makes some sense even if the near interception stat is a goofy one.

Are we really still talking about this stiff and his "analasys"?

Yes Cutler throws picks! Yes Cutler needs to improve!

Is he better than Grossman/Orton? Yes!

Will he give the Bears a better chance to win? Yes!

Enough said!

JPCZ, You have not been a Bears fan long have you? The Rick Mirer trade still burns my arse!!!! Also, I still don't think they gave up to much because when you look at our track record with our first round draft picks? Other then Olsen we have not got anything out of our first.

@jimbob "Will he give the Bears a better chance to win? Yes!"

that's what Mike Shanahan thought

Bear fans are drinking the kool aid if they think Cutler And his agent Bus Cook did'nt orchestrate this trade for money and only money. When it is announced that the Bears are tearing up Cutler's contract to give him a better one don't be supprised. Enjoy your talk of super bowls mow because it won't be long till you realize you traded for a drunk and a loser.

Toby,

Is 33 years along time? Yes, Rick Mirer is a sore spot for me.

I'm not saying Cutler won't do well, just that we paid WAY TOO MUCH.

The faulty arguement of 'Hey, we always blow 1st round picks anyway' is COMPLETELY USELESS. Under that logic, why didn't we just tell Indy we'd give them our next 20 1st rounders for Peyton Manning.

GO BEARS!

Joyners whole arguement is based off of cutler's ints. Here's the stat that he overlooks. Grossman had an int/att % of 4.2% and Cutler's was 2.9%. Cutler had 2 fewer ints and threw the ball 136 more times. I would take that any day.

Miami was not Rex's first bad game that season.

uh JPCZ - You might want to rethink that statement.....Name one player out this group that will/did acomplish anything remotely close to Manning? Brian? not hardly...
doh!

1991 Stan Thomas OT Texas
1992 Alonzo Spellman Defensive End Ohio State
1993 Curtis Conway Wide Receiver Southern California
1994 John Thierry Defensive End Alcorn State
1995 Rashaan Salaam Half Back Colorado
1996 Walt Harris Defensive Back Mississippi State
1997 — No Pick — — [t]
1998 Curtis Enis Half Back Penn State
1999 Cade McNown Quarterback UCLA [u]
2000 Brian Urlacher LB/S New Mexico
2001 David Terrell Wide Receiver Michigan
2002 Marc Colombo OT Boston College
2003 Michael Haynes Defensive End Penn State [v]
2003 Rex Grossman Quarterback Florida [v]
2004 Harris, Tommie DT Oklahoma
2005 Benson, Cedric Half Back Texas
2006 — No Pick — — [w]
2007 Olsen, Greg Tight End Miami
2008 Williams, Chris OT Vanderbilt
2009 — No Pick — —

Thanks for the quick list Randy -- based on that, you'd better believe I would give every single one of them, even my man Urlacher, for Peyton Manning. No question.

That said, I say everyone calm down and just get ready for this season, that is our job as fans. A hack's job is to try to cash in on being a paranoid nutjob, 'nuff said.

Yeah, the whole 'we paid too much' argument is weak. We jumped on an opportunity that comes about once a decade. Getting an All-Pro quarterback - especially on a team that's never had an All-Pro quarterback (Sorry, Jimmy Mac was great an all, but hardly a hall of fame career). I applaud the Bears for actually pulling the trigger and jumping on this opportunity.

Randy & Luke,

Past performance is no indicator of future results. Those 2 1st rounders we traded + a starting (probably a #2 for many teams) QB, plus a 3rd for a 5th is TOO MUCH. It's simply a VERY STRONG argument.

Whether or not WE picked well with them is irrelevant . . . we did NOT get proper value, trading for a QB without a winning season since at least high school . . . it's sad really.

We'll see how Cutler does, and I'm hoping I'm wrong, but anything short of a Super Bowl win means we paid too much!

I think Joyner touched on something that many fans have said already since the trade went down. Everyone knows Cutler is talented but you have yet to hear any fans really admit that he must be improve . Its basically been assumed that since he made the pro bowl he is without flaws so all he has to do is show up.

Cutler was not perfect in Denver but somehow in the move to Chicago he has become perfect. Ive read every comment on the Blog for months and I have seen very few fans even suggest that Cutler needed to imrpove something . The reasons usually lineup like

Hes better than Orton and Grossman

He went to the pro bowl

his defense sucked

but no one ever says Cutler needs to continue his development and improve in anything and so I can see why Joyner felt that way .

But that is how everyone is judging the trade - Past first picks - You can not judge them by what has not ever happened, if your going to bet - you look at the way the dice have been falling, and go with that. The Bears have a history of flubbing first round picks, cmon, given that scenario anyone would make that deal. well close to it
:)

Actually some have suggested Leadership is what Cutler needs to improve on, I feel he has already done that with the way he has maturely answered critics and made overtures to Free Agent WR's.
I have watched his game closely since the trade and I have seen a QB that plays the game, everyone can improve, I am not sure what that means...we have a QB that is worth what we paid - if we did not pay that - believe me another team was right there not far away from what we offered, we paid what the market price was, and anytime you do that - you make a good buy. Paid too much? by whose standards? Certainly not the other teams that we were trying to outbid. And their's is the only standard that counts.

Try going to an auction and pay less than what the other high bidder offers and see what you walk home with. Is it a risk? sure it is, just like the firsts are risks, but the imporatnt thing is, our risk has alot of known factors, the firsts are totally unknown factors, 1 bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. When was the last time a Pro Bowl QB was traded?? I don't even want to look that stat up but I am thinking it's extremely rare to be able to have a shot at this trade much less have the bawz to pull it off.
Take away all you want and naysay anything you want but you can never ever take away the fact Cutler is a ProBowl QB. (Bears) and those 2 firsts? who knows.
Before the trade was even made I wrote that Cutler was worth 2 firsts and a second, so in my opinion JA got him cheap. And everyone here knows I have let JA have both barrels since Ive been on this blog. But JA did what he had to do and I respect him for that.

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This page contains a single entry by Brad Biggs published on July 13, 2009 8:21 AM.

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