Chicago Sun-Times

Fit QB Orton says Bears have upgraded at receiver

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Everyone was looking their best at the Bears Care gala Saturday night at Soldier Field, a black-tie event that coming into this year had helped raise nearly $7 million in the fight against cancer.

But quarterback Kyle Orton looked particularly good in his tuxedo. If anyone is in top shape, it’s Orton as he prepares to embark on a competition for the starting job with Rex Grossman.

Orton stopped to chat and said he’s comfortable there is going to be a level playing field. It’s expected a decision on the starter will not be made until some time in the preseason after both quarterbacks have had turns in live action.

``It’s the most excited I’ve been going into a season,’’ Orton said. ``I’ve put in a lot of work in the offseason and I’m just really excited where my game is at. I’m throwing the football really well and I’m just excited.’’

There are plenty of new parts to assimilate on offense. The Bears potentially will have three changes on the offensive line, two new starting wide receivers and maybe a new running back. That’s some turnover for a quarterback to deal with.

``Maybe a little bit just timing wise,’’ Orton said when asked if it would affect his job. ``The guys have been there [in the offseason program]. The receivers have been there and I’m real excited about them. I think we’ve got a lot of talent and really upgraded at the position. I’m just excited because this is my fourth year going into the same system and any time you have that chance as a quarterback you start feeling more comfortable and playing better.’’

That’s an interesting take, that the Bears will be upgraded at receiver given the fact that Bernard Berrian, far and away their top receiver the last two seasons, departed via free agency.

Maybe it was a veiled swipe at Muhsin Muhammad, who made a habit of occasionally placing the quarterbacks under the bus when he was unhappy. Orton certainly took his turn being run over.

Mark Bradley, Devin Hester, Brandon Lloyd, Earl Bennett and Rashied Davis have a lot of work to do to make up for the loss of Berrian. It might not be a one-man job. Booker for Muhammad seems like a pretty good trade at this point. Booker has better wheels at this point and could blend into the locker room a little better.

As always, stay tuned.

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I totally agree with Kyle`s assessment of the new look talent that the Bears have put together. I feel Booker is an up grade over Moose, who was dropping balls like $100 dollar bills at the crap table, and adding a couple of well coached rookies will bring lots of energy to the offensive side of the ball. I am really looking forward to seeing this tight end Kellen Davis play in the pre-season, he sounds like he is a monster. If we can just get the offensive line solidified, then we are going to be a pretty decent ball control offense, with the ability to go deep at any time. Go Bears!!

I don't know about an upgrade at WR, although the Bears may be a little better in the passing game because of another year of tight end and Hester development. Plus a blind pig could throw more touchdowns than the Bears did last year, so when you are that poor in the passisng game it isn't too hard to imporve from an F to a D grade, it would be nice to see A grades sometime in the not to distant future. As for Berrian, he was good on the go routes, but he also dropped a few last year and who will throw him the ball in Minnesota. Their quarterback can run but he sure can't hide or throw with any accuracy. The Bears D will destroy the Vikings this year. I see Berrian's arms are shrinking into alligator arms, already.

Berrian was overrated. He's a nice #2 but is not a #1 guy. Bradley could be better if he could stay on the field.

Glad to see Kyle is coming in ready for the competition. He has the tools. From afar, he gave off an attitude that he wasn't as dedicated as a good NFL QB needs to be. Hopefully he or Rex will step up and separate themselves and give the coaches and players someone to rally around and give them some hope for the season.

Booker and Bradley together are improvements over Berrian and Moose. The new guys are unproven, but Olsen should be ready for a great year with the hands and speed he has.

Berrian wasn't THAT good. Don't get me wrong, he was the greatest deep threat reciever the Bears have had in the last several years, but he isn't Randy Moss...even though the Vikes seem to want to pay him that much.

He forgot to mention we have the best TE corp in the league.

Bennett will be Berrian in 6 weeks.

I think the bears have a good core of wide outs young guys that want to prove to themselves that they can play at the pro the biggest surprise if the bears are not to stuck on one or two gys and believe with the young group that they can help deliver i see marcus monk being a real nice fit for the offense it gives rex or orton a big body they can throw to earl bennet hes a sure handed reciever who i hear is a really good route runner forte should lock up the starting job at the tail and when you look at book a much better fit than moose so its a wait and see type of season and hopefully we will win more this year than we did last year go bears.

Its gonna be nice to see what happens in the pre season. The QB RB and the WR possitions might come down to who wants it more.

Last year was suspect of some of the WR's taking plays off and did not want to run a route in the middle of the field. Maybe this year the Bears can get the most outta this group of Wide Outs.

Hopefully it will be a fair competition and the Brandon Lloyd incident was just a misunderstanding, I'm confident it was. One thing I have always liked about Orton is his Poise in the pocket and his confidence even when things are getting bad, and it seems like this offseason Orton has an abundance of confidence. I think with improved receiver play and time to get his timing down with them you will see an improvement in Orton's accuracy. Actually his accuracy wasn't that bad, vs the Vikings and the Packers Orton was 57% comp not bad and close to that 60% comp.

As far as the receivers go, its all about staying injury free this will be the key to success. I think Booker is a definite upgrade over Moose. As far as replaceing Berrian its what I said earlier just staying healthy and I was referring to Mark Bradley, who if healthy is an upgrade over Berrian for the simple fact Bradley has more to his game then just going deep. I'm confident he will remain healthy, there have been a lot of receivers who were banged up earlier in their career and came on to be durable productive wideouts. Im also excited to check out this Earl Bennett kid who was the SEC all time leading receiver with 236 cathches in just three seasons. What I like the most about Bennett that I read in many scouting reports was his ability to create separation with his head and shoulder fakes which is obviously effective with the 236 catches, and keep in mind this is vs SEC corners. I also like Greg Olsen to come on with a big season, Olsen will also help out the receivers and our overall offense. If this unit stays injury free Angelo could lose the rep of not being able to bring in offensive talent GO BEARS!!

I'm supportin' Orton

Reading some of the comments above, Chicago has some of the most blind faith homer fans in the country. Where is Creighton when we need him? Yeah right, Booger is an upgrade over Moose. Here's a clue: Check his dropped passes stats. You people were saying that the team was "loaded with talent" last year and primed for another Super-Bowl run. If that team was loaded with talent, I'd hate to see one that you thought was mediocre.

I like Orton, because he, unlike Rex, he doesn't seem to spread the ball to the other teams. With Rex we really couldn't test out the WRs and with Orton, I beleive that we can do just that. Hopefully he IS in fact in a better shape, and I hope that he will get the starting position due to his ability and the position won't go to Rex due to the confusing biases by the coaching staff to him. Hopefully this year we'll hear "Kyle is OUR quarter back". GO BEARS!!!!

Bennett is stout at 6'1" 210, and has sure hands. His physical style of play (IN COLLEGE!!!!) does remind me of Hines Ward (NFL is diff animal though). Forte instantly helps at running back as he can play all 3 downs, and Benson can return to punishing game finisher he was when Jones was here. That is the best role for Benson. Monk might be a steal or a nobody. But there is no risk with taking potential in the 7th round. Even before they drafted Kellen davis, the TE position is stacked.

But it all still hinges on how good Chris Williams will be immediately at left tackle. I say give him the position and let him take his lumps early in the year, and if he is good, then he will be fine. If he is as good as Bears think he is, then Tait improves RT, and the interior line will play better b/c of it. If Williams is good, then the entire OL will be good. Lot to put on a young player, but that is exactly what the deal is. It would be cool if Cheese Adams turns out to be good, because he is huge and will dominate at the point of attack. If he can pull (doubtful at 340lbs), then he'll be a starter by season's midpoint.

The defense has to stay healthy, and they will return to 05 and 06 form. We need the more physical 05 version this year. Remember the Bears defense was more than dominant against a stellar SD offense last year WHEN HEALTHY. So they can be dominant again right away.

With that being said, the same ole story in Chicago ----- QUARTERBACK will decide if team makes playoffs or not. Too bad for us. Well, I hope Orton does well. Grossman has shown to be a Flutie type of QB that can win a game or two but not much else. Orton can at least see over the line to throw over the middle when teams blitz (which they will early and often).


Ryan, you said that Grossman is a Flutie type of QB. Is that because Flutie is 5'10" and Grossman is 6'1"? Flutie had a good college career and played well in the CFL, but how is Grossman like Flutie other than a 3" height difference? Grossman did take the Bears to the Superbowl for the first time since 86'. I suppose that Brett Favre and Steve Young shouldn't have played QB since they weren't 6'4" right? How about the thought that an NFL QB should have a really strong arm? I bet you think that Orton has a great NFL arm right? Wrong. At least Grossman has an NFL arm and has taken the Bears to a Superbowl.

Hey Dave if we are Bears fans and most live in Chicago or have lived in Chicago, are you following me so far? that would make us homers don't ya think?

Dave Parks, actually 15% of the balls that came Muhsin Muhammad's way were dropped, which led the NFL. So no matter where Booker is ranked he is an upgrade over Muhammad in this aspect. Marty Booker is three years younger than Muhammad, also another upgrade. Marty Booker had 10 more catches than Muhammad with less superior QB's, no way is a banged up Trent Green, Cleo Lemon, and John Beck better than Griese, Grossman, and Orton, so yes another upgrade. Also Dave, yes the team was "loaded with talent" they were just injured most of the season. I guarantee if the Bears would have stayed healthy last season they would have made a playoff run. Want some proof, take the game vs the super bowl champion Giants on Dec 2nd the Bears lost that game 16 to 21 thats 5 measly points, just think if the Bears would have had a few of there injured players for that game? Heck, I would of took a healthy Urlacher and Tommie Harris, who both played but did so banged up and for most of the season. Bottom line Dave, I fail to understand your negativity, so GO BEARS!!

Yeah, I like Orton too (big Rex fan) but Rex has had his day and it's time. The WR is an upgrade but it's hard to say given how poor the offense as a whole did last year. Was it the WR? or QB? or Line? I agree it's up to Williams (and the later round guards)
I really feel the WR/QB/RB can hold their own given a decent line. We added some good WR/RB and as stated above I would really like to see Monk.
Really excited about the new guy's Williams/Bennet/Forte/Harrison/Monk especially, actually after Williams we HAVE to get a guard or 2 out of our later picks.
I guess it's time to stop bitchin (aka Jay) and start hopin again.

If Rex can play like he did after the benching, he's leaps and bounds better than Kyle. If he can't, then Kyle may have the ability to "manage" the game better if the defense can dominate again. I forsee a lot of lower scoring games next year, with the D making big plays to keep the team in every ball game.

honestly, how could the receiver corp be any worse than last year? Turner has to step up and start calling plays that the offense can execute! i love the orange & blue, go to all the home games and at least one road game every year, but this year is gonna suck! Walking out of Ford Field last year was frickin' horrible! All i can see this year is a 4th place finish in the NFC North. Tavarias Jackson, Aaron Rodgers, John Kitna all suck the big one, but they got protection. Joe Montana, Joe Namath, Joe Mamma could'nt do anything with a rookie LT and a pair of guards that can't run block!
With the anticipated QB rotation expect center OK to have a ton of offside calls. Put yer CB chubby away and grab da bourbon! ViQueens, F...Packers and Lions will always suck! GO BEARS! (2009)

i think a rookie left tackle can start and be productive marcus mcneil did it with the chargers in 2006 and tony ugoh did it with the colts in 2007, both second rounders to boot. I know though that the chargers and colts have a better supporting cast than the bears and that might have most to do with it but i'm still hoping williams can follow that trend.

i'm hoping that orton will get a fair chance this season, i'm usually hopeful for the bears but i can't take another rex grossman year, one game is too many. so i guess everything i say about the offense will be under the assumption that orton starts.

i think mark bradley will be a serious upgrade over berrian. its seems like bradley has a lot more chemistry with orton. grossman never really seem to have that with him, to me it looked like the timing was off between them, i'm not sure but something seemed off. berrian was a deep threat but really couldn't do much else. i don't know how many times he blew blocking assignments with a half-hearted shove. i'm glad moose is gone. if marty booker has a season like musin muhammad's last year i'll consider it an upgrade. i don't know what goes on in the locker room but blaming the QBs for your problems can't be good for the teams. i don't ever remember booker complaining about shane matthews, jim miller, chris chandler and everybody else. thats an instant upgrade.

as long as grossman stays off the field, i think we have a chance. the passing offense was ranked 15th last year, i think. 15th isn't too bad considering that we couldn't run the ball at all, our recievers dropped all the time, the o-line sucked and grossman started a few games, only contributing to the turnovers. I know a lot of those yards were put up by griese but i don't believe that he's all that better than orton.

Etim, actually Kitna's pretty good but he does not have decent protection. That guy gets hit and sacked so many times it's unbelievable he's still walking. The Lions have this thing about taking WRs with high picks and quite frankly forget about protecting their QB.

First off anonymous, thanks for pointing out all the stuff you think is wrong with my opinion.

Second off, I think Grossman and Flutie are both small men with a big arm but can't see over the lineman to throw with accuracy against a blitz up the middle. Which, BTW, is the way most teams blitz Grossman as, knowing what I just said to be true--- that he can't accurately throw over themiddle against a blitz with accuracy. This was Flutie's same weakness. Plus both their hands are small, so they are prone to more fumbles.

I am for Orton right now because I believe that I have seen the best of Rex. And that was 5 of the first 7 games of 06 (GB, DET, SEA,BUF

With Orton, the Bears will have a 6'4" QB with below average NFL talent. But still enough talent to get the job done (ala 05). Plus, I assume he is better now because of more experience in the system, and generally more talent than the 05 team. Face it, that 05 team over achieved, and last years team under achieved (by about 4 games). Orton will not lose a game while Rex will (see MIA, NE, and Indy). Orton has had 1 atrocious game in his career---throwing 5 int's against Cincy the 3rd game of 05.

The Bears are better off if Orton can win the job. I predict 10-6 if he wins job, Chris Williams wins and does good at LT, and the defense stays away from severe injuries.

Go Bears!!!!

man, all im hearing is i hope orton starts,lol. just a couple months ago everyone was saying that grossman should start, and how there wasnt any good FA QB's out there and crap like that. can ya'll make up your minds? we need a QB to go out and make ron turners offense more exciting, and thats rex. does everyone want to see another year of kyle throwing these little dump passes that get us 2 yards again? I DONT!!! dont get me wrong i like KO, but as a backup. i also think that the bears to be a good offense have to get rid of RT. he wasnt that good the first time around and hes still not that good now.


I agree with many of the these posts - the ones that are optimistic about our team. And I totally agree we likely will be better at WR this year. Berrian was over rated. But most are missing one thing - more chatter about Marcus Monk. I'm telling you if he's healthy he will be one of our top three by season's end. We're stronger this year at Safety, DT,, O line WR, RB, and I believe either Rex or Orton - while not the long term answer - will step up and improve over last year. By improve I mean a modest improvement in pics, first downs, and TD passes and with Forte we will have better time of possession which leads to a healthier D that doesn't tire in the 4th quarter.

No question though Chris Williams has to show us by mid-season he's a legitimate starter and that he's not just developing for year 2.

ORton was 2/10 for 13 yards vs Atlanta in the first Half.

I'd say that qualifies as a BAD game.

paul, suggesting bennett will be berrian in 6 weeks is one of the most ridiculous homer comments i've ever read in my life.

berrian is a prototypical flanker where bennett is a slot receiver, two completely different positions with different responsibilities and skill sets. berrian runs the go/fade route as well as anyone in the nfl, drops some easy ones and is a willing but not necessarily effective run blocker. was berrian worth the cash he got from minnesota? no, he's being paid as a top 4 wr, when in reality he's a top 25 receiver. it just amazes me when guys leave the bears how quickly and conveniently bear fans turn on them.

the bears wr corps was amongst the worst in the nfl last season, so they have nowhere to go but up. i don't see how lloyd and booker are much of an upgrade from moose & berrian, because they aren't. pinning hopes on two rookies to come in and make a difference is pretty silly as wr is one of the most difficult transitions from college to pro.

the bears improved the competition at wr, but their wr corps is still one of the most unproven in the nfl. aside from hester, i don't see a single wr opposing defenses will double team/roll coverage towards.

Well I have to disagree with EtIm. The Bears are not going to finish fourth in the division, no way and no how. The Bears will not lose to the Lions twice this year like they did last year, I say they sweep the lions. And at worst they split with the Packers and Vikings. The Bears will win the division and be in the championship game of the NFC and have a gooed shot to win the SuperBowl if they can get through the Championship game. P.S. ANd I anot smoking anything or belong to a Canibis club.

I know that I am one of the few left standing on Grossman, But I truly believe he is capable of being a leader that can win the big one THE SUPERBOWL, if he uses his brain and is a smarter QB than in the past( he showed signs of it late last year). The Bears have improved in every position vs last year and will have a championship level defense. My main concerns are the youth mistakes on offense at OL, RB and WR not QB and the poor coaching adjustments the Bears continue to not make at halftime. The Bears should have won the Giants game and both Lions games last year, they were ahead at halftime and played extremely poorly after half time. That would work out to 10-6 and playoffs baby, with a team that was severly depleted with injuries.

The o line was horrible last season in all aspects and that led to everything else being horrible.....i think Benson/Forte will have a good season and i say the bears go 11-5 if the defense stays healthy(glad to see they didnt waste time cuttin Archeletta he was a BUM!!!!!!)

Of course, as a couple of you have pointed out, any improvement in the passing game hinges much more on the offensive line than on the receivers,quarterback,and running game.Even so, getting a little opening away from defenders seems more likely with the new receivers. Even Peyton Manning looks bad when he has no protection,in spite of his quick release and accuracy.

The Wide Reciever could SHOULD be better this year, especially if Bradley plays to form and Hester becomes a legit deep threat. Monk could also turn out to be a terror in the red-zone.

And not of this speaks to the TE's.

This is why I think REX should be our QB.

Orton is boring. He is not very accurate, especially on deep route.

The fact is, if the Defense steps up, and the line blocks better, we can live with a few games of bad Rex.

And hopefully, there won't be but one or two this season, if the line learns to block.

I don't agree IDC, Orton can throw the football, that's all they did @ Purdue. He also manages a game better than REX, and I'm not talking about handoff here and there, I talking about seeing the blitz, handling the football from center, avoiding the rush, To me he has matured and will be able to give us some solid play at the position. I do not have a problem with INT's., all QB's throw them, it's the ball-handling, that is critical, especially with a team that is defensive oriented like ours. Keep REX around in case Orton's not ready, but if he is give him the job and move on. One thing is for certain, by having competition we will have the best player behind center and that's all any BEARS fan wants. Go BEARS

You're right Idc, Orton is boring. We don't need that. We need to laugh! We need fun! Hee hee! That's why have we have the short qb who runs backwards 20 yrds. and then falls on his face, who can't take a basic snap from center to save his life, and who makes mind numbing decisions that only a religous think tank could decipher.

This is not a carnival genius. This is football.

I'll take the boring qb who just makes plays and won't blame everyone else around for his failures.


Success all hinges on the effectiveness of the running game. If it falters like last year, then it's another top-15 draft pick. If Benson, Forte, and the O-line do their jobs then it's possible the Bears will win 10 games. WRs just need to be servicable and nothing more. Catch the ball when it hits your hands!

well i dont think we can safely say right now that our WRs are better, but last year they were horrid and it LOOKS like they are better this year
and I agree with IDC
I don't want a QB who can manage the game I want one who can win it
I think thats one of the biggest problems here in Chicago
we want a good QB don't we then expect your QB to go out there 100% each time
with Rex I believe we have the better oppertunity to preform at a high level on offense
Kyle is solid, but I wouldn't pick him over Rex

A-1 job Angelo. Jerry signed Robbie Gould through 2013. Thats a 5 year extension. Terms were unknown!

The Chicago Bears embark upon the new season with yet another quarterback "controversy." I posted comments concerning Grossman last season and I repeat: what were the receivers doing to help out Grossman last season? If three more passes were actually caught by the Bear's "receivers" last year against Dallas, Grossman would have stayed as the starting qb. If Benson could actually recognize a blitz (something Thomas Jones could do very well), Grossman wouldn't have been pasted in San Diego and would be the starting quarterback.
Grossman played well when coming back as the starter. That "defense" let the team down time and time again. Quit with the whining about Rex and sign some offensive tackles/guards! (Williams was an excellent addition).
Looking forward to this season....Go Bears!

All I gotta say is there are a bunch of crystal balls out here.

More importantly, if Orton had a bad attitude because he was expecting to start, he needs to grow up. He is not a pro bowler, not a franchise qb, and definitely did not take any team to the superbowl. He should have been motivated to play from day 1. If it took him till now to realize he needed to be in shape in this NFL, what a goof! Smacks of selfishness to me, grow up kid.

Hey chitownbear, how can you really say those things about Orton? He hasn't done a damn thing?! At least Rex has had some good games and made some great throws. Orton has shown ZERO upside in ALL of his starts. Your right about him being a solid game manager, but, he doesn't MAKE PLAYS.

Rex is a playmaking machine. Unfortunately, his playmaking often includes opposing DB's. That said, with a good line and running game, he can be a very solid QB.

I like Orton. But I haven't seen him do ANYTHING. Good or bad.

I like orton,but he is a solid back-up Q.B.not a starter.orton can come in if our Q.B gets hurt.he will manage the game to get us by,but thats it.I am glad we have orton for a back up guy,orton really fills the role for us.grossman will get this offense going this year,with an improved line & running game.if we are going to go this year & get back to the will have to be with grossman! grossman is a big time play maker.give this kid some protection & a little time & let him shred the defense.we saw what rex is capable of.i dont blame last year or the end of the season in the 2006 season on rex.rex had no o-line or protection,the o-line has sucked.nor did he have a running Q.B succeeds without a decent O-line & a running game! if the o-line comes together & we are able to run the for grossman to have a big year.people will be mentioning him for the pro bowl again.this kid really has talent.he never had a great line or running game here.but we have seen what rex can do.berrian was a wuss,he hated contact.he catches wide open balls in no traffic.he didnt block and is soft!good for minnesota,we will knock his head off! booker is cool.moose was a locker room problem.constantly covering his butt,by throwing our q.b.'s under the bus.when he screwed up.what was moose teaching our young guys anyway?? bradley was the man over berrian before he got hurt anyway.remember our vaunted defense was decimated with injuries all last year.we also made ourselves better in the draft.with probably 6 starters coming out of this draft.THE BEARS WILL BE BACK IN 2008!!! GO BEARS!

I think grossman at best could be a mike martz kind of qb. he's fine when nobody is pressuring him. the problems with grossman are plenty and a lot of them i don't think he'll be able to fix. grossman has absolutely no presence in the pocket. he has no ability to feel the pressure and side step, he just freezes and gets sacked. seeing griese and orton actually side step to make a throw was refreshing. grossman doesn't study film and he's a turnover machine, even in his "good" year. sure orton isn't flashy and his neck beard leave his judgment in question but he isn't going to lose a game for you. he might not be able to win one either but its better than the devestation t-rex leaves.

ohh and as for grossman and martz, i hope he rides the bench this year and finally leaves chicago for good. maybe he'll end in s.f. and bless the niners with his presence.

orton pouted like a man by drinking too much, getting fat and growing a neck beard
grossman pouted like a spoiled child, thats earning some respect there
at least orton took the pabst blue ribbon way out, rex just complained and moaned about it

I disagree with some fans who are saying that Kyle Orton had a bad attitude. Yeah, Orton probably took the benching in 2005 as a smack in the face, but any one of us who would get a demotion in our jobs wouldn't take it sitting down, even if we deserved it. I never read or heard anything about Orton haveing a bad attitude or causeing problems in the locker room. Actually it was quite the contrary, what I read and heard, and from more than one source, was that Orton looked like a totally different QB after the 2006 season in which Orton spent as the third QB and primarily ran the scout team. If you remember last summer going into the pre-season the coaching staff was so impressed with Orton that they felt he could possibly push Griese for the backup position. This shows me that he worked hard at getting better in 2006, especially with the coaching staff noticeing such a difference in Orton going into the 2007 pre-season. Also guys come on, just because Orton has a laid back demeanor doesn't mean he is lazy. As far as Orton looking more physically appealing than his rookie and second season, this does not mean he just now decided to work out, it takes a few years in a gym to get noticeable results. So I also disagree with people saying that Orton just now decided to get in shape, because he obviously has been working out the last couple season. Oh well we'll see this summer who the man will be GO BEARS!!

Orton Purdue Career:
Purdue career leader with 2.43 interception percentage (23 interceptions in 947 attempts) ... ranks fourth with .581 completion percentage, fifth with 947 passing attempts, fifth with 550 completions, fifth with 6,247 passing yards, fifth with 6,451 yards total offense, seventh with 32 passing touchdowns, 11th with 119.8 passing efficiency and tied for 14th with 23 interceptions ... has three 300-yard passing games (two of them 400-plus) ... third quarterback in school history to start three bowl games, following Mark Herrmann (1978-80) and Drew Brees (1998-2000).

2004: Named 14th-best player in the nation (No. 2 in the Big Ten) by ESPN The Magazine ... preseason third team All-American and No. 3-ranked quarterback in the nation by Phil Steele's behind Matt Leinart (USC) and Jason White (Oklahoma)

--Kyle was held back by the Bears offense play calling - He is a much better QB than what we have seen and I believe he will show what he has this year IF they give him a legit shot.
I have always been a Rex backer but I really feel Orton can get it done given the chance. I don't feel Lovie/JA will give him a legit shot though. It will be Rex starting - and if he falters then Orton will show his true stuff. Being from Indiana I homer both QB's but I really feel Orton is past due a legit shot.
-btw Some are forgetting that Hester will replace Berrian as the deep threat/cross pattern WR which will open the field for Bradley/Booker/Bennet, last year was his first as WR this year he will do much better.

In Kyle Orton, the Bears have what the fans, writers and analysts have been calling for...a developmental QB prospect. He was blue-chip going into his senior season and was considered a fourth round "steal". With one season as a starter and 2 seasons as a backup, he is unique for a Bears quarterback...both experienced and developing. He appears to have all the traits of a professional QB and COULD be the Bears future starter.

The Kellen Davis highlights on the Bears website are incredible. He actually looks more athletic than Olen. These tight ends should be stretching the field which will allow the receivers to run underneath; using their run-after-the-catch skills in a more traditional West-Coast style passing game.

The main weakness is the quality and depth of offensive line talent. As a rookie, Williams may show the skills and productivity to compare with a John Tait (LT). Tait should improve the pass blocking on the right side, but I doubt he is the run blocker that Miller was in '06. Kreutz is declining quickly, Garza is an average starter and the LG position (which is crucial to the run game) is open. St.Clair could play LG, and did an adequate job at the end of '07, but moving him to the starting lineup absolute devastates the depth along the line.

…If it all starts up front, then the Bears are finished this season. I believe that this line can NOT compete with any of the defensive fronts in the NFC Central.

Cutting Benson won't help to prevent Kreutz from getting planted in the backfield on a regular basis.

The Bears didnt do anything this offseason because they have to sign tommie harris ,robbie,and devin hester!I hope next year they go for a QB and a WR Please this is getting ridiculous.good luck fellow bears fans another year of mediocrity!!!

Hello people, Orton is only saying this to kiss up to the front office and the WR's. Get a freaking clue. He knows he doesn't have half of the skill as Grossman so he has to do anything he can to make it seem he is the better QB before they get to the field. Once training camp starts and Orton can't hit Hester in stride on a bomb, that will be the end of the Orton experiment. This offense does not suit Orton. Orton needs a shot-gun, wide open, please defense don't cover my WR's type of offense.

Mike the Bears signed Gould to a 5 year extension worth 15.5 million. I have yet to hear what the roster bonus will consist of.

Gould is know the highest paid kicker in the NFL.

Seems as though everybody has their opinion on the QB situation. Its probably no secret that I am a big suporter of Kyle Orton. Im not saying I wont support Rex because I do. I just dont see Grossman having the pocket presents, to have the ability to make defenders miss. I do beleive that the ability to make a defender miss while in the pocket is far better trait then to have the ability to chuck the ball down field. With no names mentioned, Some of the blogers say the Bears need a QB with the ability to throw the deep ball.I.E. Grossman. Others like to see the manageing QB with the ability to dump the ball off. I.E. Orton.

If you think about it how many times a game will the Bears chuck a 40+ yard pass down field? Maybe 4-7 times a game. How many times do you see the Bears try to invole the RB, TE, and the full back? Maybe 15-20 times a game.

I dont want to put down anyone of the QBs the Bears have. I still beleive, even after the draft, that the Bears have the 2 best QBs in the NFC North. It just seems to me that Orton will fit this what ever you want to call it west coast offense better then Grossman. Remember patients is the key to the west coast offense. Rex has yet to show patients. On top of that it looks as though when Grossman is in at QB Ron Turner makes some idiot calls. Ones that kinda go aginst the grain of this paticular offense.

Who ever is the QB I just hope that that ONE QB can stick with it for all 16 games!

Brando I too like Orton over Rex. The last two games he played, he showed some very good pocket presence and avoided the rush quite well which will be a MUST this season given the question marks on the O-line. And if he has pocket presents, maybe he'll be generous enough to give one out to all the fans on this blog.

Orton also has the bigger frame, and he's physically tougher. I think he can take a few hits without getting too razzled. One more thing, he didn't show too many mental mistakes meaning less turnovers. All who go back and look at his rookie career, "Ahh, Dur...see? He threw an interception. He's bad. DURRRR..." lack the simple intelligence to realize that he was thrown into the starter role before he was even ready. And yeah, having his emminence, Lord Ron Turner, as an OC didn't help him much either.

Brad, where's the post on Gould's contract? Brando's going to end up taking your job!

I'm not saying team can't win with Orton.

I'm also not saying the Rex doesn't give the entire city heartburn.

I'm saying that, if the receivers play up to par, the team should go with a more open-attack, and Rex is more capable of providing that.

Orton reminds me of McNabb, in that he too often leaves easy throws at people's feet, or ten feet about their heads. And he is hardly the athlete of McNabb, or as gifted in the deep game.

Orton is a manager. Period. If the team doesn't run the ball, he will struggle.

This is the last year, but we all know that, when on, Rex Grossman can DOMINATE A GAME.

When off, he can dominate it for the other team.

I'm hoping to see more of the former.


The Bears run "Dink and Dunk" not "West Coast". Those pass plays are not game planned as the focus on offense, but become necessary when the OL and RB are getting waxed...or the QB can't throw the ball down-field (see: Brian Griese) or accurately connect with a reciever down-field (see: Kyle Orton).

Grossman is absolutely a Martz style QB and Lovie and Ron have always said they wanted to run more of a Martz-style offense or something similar to the Kansas City play book when Dick Vermiel was running the show.

Grossman fits that bill.

The Bears do not have the personnel to run a true "West Coast" offense. They did it out of necessity to move the chains and run plays that Greise and Orton could handle. Orton has a great arm but I have yet to see him connect on a single, deep play-action pass for a TD. How many of those plays has Grossman made?

Both Orton and Grossman have had over 20 starts and while Grossman has lost games for the Bears, HE'S WON GAMES TOO. Orton hasn't done anything!

Are some of you guys actually watching these games?

Ps. Brando, do us all a favor and take an English class. Sheesh!

Hey estevenj, I think a lot of us are watching the games, my question to you is did you watch the games at the end of the season last year like most of us die hard bear fans did, Orton played well, he showed poise got the ball to the open receiver and did NOT fumble even when sacked. Rex has had the support of the majority of us for a long time, I'm just stating my opinion that its Orton's time now, he has upside... that means potential we have not seen, Rex has a lot of baggage he is carrying and if he goes bad it WILL affect his play...Most of the people have been complaining that the BEARS have not developed a QB.....Well to develop one you have to play him, live with him, and die with him, we did that already with REX, its Orton's turn, REX is insurance only at this point, and a damn good insurance policy I might add, but fellows get used to it, It ORTON time in Chicago......
P.S. Shout out to Randy for the Purdue stats, you really helped my arguement my friend....

I think Grossman pisses everyone off because he's got the chops for the job, but is constantly a two step forward one step back QB. Clearly he's more QB Savvy then Orton, but Orton doesn't F-Up nearly as bad. If Grossman grows up, he'll be a far better QB, but that's a big IF! OFF TOPIC: I'd like to see the Bears squeeze another year out of Urlachers existing contract and then trade him for the first pick in next year's draft, and pick up Tim Tebow! That guy has IT! Urlacher has 4 years left on his contract. NEWS FLASH: Urlacher won't be in the league in 4 years! His neck & back won't allow it. I think he knows it and is looking to cash in now. If we trade him, next year, we may finally have a great QB.
Over & Out!

I was happy to see the Bears got the deal done with Robbie Gould. I think next the Bears need to turn their attention to either Tommie Harris or Brian Urlacher. I'm afraid Harris will only take top overall defensive lineman pay, much like what the Colts Dwight Freeney got. I just don't know if the Bears will pay Harris like that, the Bears might end up haveing to tag Harris next off-season. As far as Urlacher, the Bears should be able to handle what he wants. I say pay Urlacher, the Bears can afford to and they need to make their top linebacker happy. If there are other linebackers in the NFL makeing more than Urlacher, I can see his point. I can't think of any other linebackers that are worth more than Urlacher, I think he is the best in the game right now, hands down. Urlacher is only 30, he should have 4 more good seasons left in him, take some other inside backers like Tedy Bruschi, Ray Lewis, Mike Vrabel, and London Fletcher, all stayed effective well past 30. Urlacher is hands down better than any of these guys and should stay in better shape than any of them. Other than the neck scare, Urlacher has never had any other major health problems, maybe the hammy in 2004 but what player who has played awhile in the NFL hasn't had some kind of hamstring problem one time or another? Urlacher came on last year and got in the 55 club which means 5 plus sacks 5 plus ints. I look for Urlacher to come on like a mad man this season, if for nothing else the pro bowl snub. I remember when the sporting news called Urlacher over rated, how did he answer that snub? Why by being D player of the year the very next season. I look for the same kind of answer this season by Urlacher. Urlacher should have made the pro bowl this season. GO BEARS!!

I like the deal with Robbie Gould. I hope he stays healthy[no Soriano hops]. Orton should be given a real chance, without Mush-hands dropping balls. O-line is still a problem until proven otherwise. One key OL injury & the offense could be toast & the defense will be ground down again every 4th quarter. I'm a big Booker fan & hope he's still got gas in the tank. He has hands you wish Grossman had. TE corps could be fun to watch. I really want Mike Brown{Mr Heart & Soul] to play all 16 games. Urlacher has made $ on endorsements, but couldn't avoid personal $ problems. Now he wants the Bears to pick up the tab? Can he & Briggs produce this year given their attitudes toward management? Will we get Tebow?!?

NEWSFLASH*** The kicker now makes as much as the quarterbacks. Only in Chicago.....

Two thoughts for the night -

Rex versus Kyle won't make alot of difference. I see our starting QB going back and forth several times during the season which of course means nobody's claiming the position via performance.

I like our WR group but one point of clarity - all you Devin Hester enthusiasts need a reality check. He's the greatest returner ever but will never be a consistent reciever. He doesn't understand the offense and is not smart enough to learn a playbook.

But we'll be 10-6 or 11-5 this year because we will stay healthy.

as much as i like urlacher, i am worried about his neck and back. it's not going to get much easier for him this season either. he's going to take a lot of contact at his position and we all know how he can't shed blocks. i'm with krause i really don't think he'll last 4 more years. it does surprise me that he's asking for more money considering that he's coming off one of his worst seasons. maybe he does want to get paid now because he knows he won't last, who knows. i think playing in lovie's system probably shorted his career. he needs two huge space eaters like he used to have earlier in his career with keith traylor and ted washington. ray lewis struggled when the ravens lost goose and sam adams, he isn't really the type of linebacker that fits in to a gap assignment scheme, neither is urlacher. urlacher adjusted to it, lewis couldn't, but it still isn't ideal for him. ray lewis will probably leave ravens after this season. he wants a long term deal but i doubt they'll give it to him. trading uracher to the ravens next year for a second round pick would be ok he can play in that style of defense and wouldn't take as much punishment from the linemen. trading him this year for a 1 next year would be great but i don't know who would take him? who knows if jamar williams could fill his role? i think he's probably a better fit for the cover two but urlacher is a thousand times better in coverage. in the end though of course the bears will keep him and i think will probably eek a few more years out of him. i highly doubt that they'll pay him what he wants, you know that money is going to harris and hester without a doubt. urlacher will be gone before those two don't get paid.

Do what??? Hester??
He try's one freakin season - part time and you decide he doesn't get it...
Dude give the guy a break! One season does not a career make, also Did you happen to notice the finger grab catches he made on his cross patterns? Those were some incredible catches he made.
Have you seen Moss/Owens make the exact same catches/routes due to speed/quickness? and how long have they been WR's? He will be fine this year he has had a year to learn the playbook and get comfortable with the offense. I believe he was even a Defensive Back draft - right? It will take a year or even 2 but he will be a huge threat at WR. He has the hands/speed/quickness/field vision and yes intelligence.

Orton is a career backup. Nuff said.

"Orton is a career backup. Nuff said."

How can one argue with such a detailed and compelling argument such as this?

Urlacher is manipulating the fact that he's a big presence in Chicago and is milking every penny he can now that he knows he doesn't have a healthy body. He's a big part of the Cover-2 defense but should be happy with the extension offer the Bears made to him. I think the Bears should call Urlacher on it and see what kind of trades they can get. We all know that Urlacher's good years are behind him. It's time to look into the Bears future, not the past.

Orton is a career backup. Nuff said.

Mike- It's very simple. Orton isn't accurate enough and doesn't have a strong enough arm for the Bears offense. The only thing he has going for him is his height- 6'4".

Nuff said.

Brando, I'm not the grammar police but someone should teach you how to spell. You spelt 8 different words wrong in only one post. First off, it's "pocket presence" and not "pocket presents". The QB doesn't receive gifts in the pocket. The Bears DO NOT run a west coast offense or ever have ran a west coast offense. No wonder why you prefer Orton over Grossman, you aren't very smart.

Chitownbear, Randy,

When did Purdue join the NFC North?

And please, give us Orton's great stats from the end of the season last year along with some highlight footage of his great pocket presence and big play capabilities.

I guess those Purdue numbers mean Ryan Leaf, Ty Detmer, Charlie Ward, and Jason White will be reporting to various training camps around the league any day now.

Get a clue ya clowns.

Orton seems like a nice guy. I think he can win some games. I'm glad he's a Bear. But he can't take the Bears to the Superbowl.

Did I just read from a anonymous that Kyle Orton doesnt have a strong arm? Yes I think I did. Im going to argue this statement.

Kyle has a very strong arm. Yeah I do agree that his long ball does have a tendency to float. Go back to the Greenbay vs. Chicago in Chicago. Remember that game was fridged cold, high winds, and a very hard field. Now remember Favre has said that that was the worste conditions he has ever played in. That includes a halloween game in 1994. That game the Bears got their tush handed to them. The 1994 game was around 40 degrees 35+ mile per hour winds and it was raining sideways. Any way that doesnt have anything to do with Ortons arm strenth. The Game last year if anyone can remember Orton did NOT throw a INT. His throws were cutting through that nasty wind and he threw a heck of a TD. If he had not had a strong arm most of his throws would have went sideways. Heck the strong arm Brett even had a hard time throwing a straight ball. That game I think was the turning point in Ortons career. He was very poised, eluded the pass rush, and stayed focused throught out the game.
Now I dont hate Grossman but when a dude makes a comment in 06 in the last game, I have a New Years party to go to , and I was thinking about that. Something to that matter.
It makes you wonder in any given game what the heck is he thinking out there. Even before he made that comment fans like I were wondering what the heck he was doing.

Sorry about the ramblings and misspelled words or words spelled write or right or rite whatever..... I just cant stand it when people just say something without having a valid point.I.E. Orton doesnt have a strong arm. He does. Yeah he floats the deep ball but with in 30 yards he can throw laser.

Anonymous O.K. the Bears realy dont run a true west coast offense I would say they run a Ron Turner Coast Offense.

You know its easy to make any statement about anyone. The thing is dude, that nobody knows if Orton can take the Bears to the Super Bowl. He has never had the chance. In 05 Grossman was healthy so the Bears elected to start him vs. the Panthers in the playoffs. Now whos to say after a horrible performance by the Defense that Orton would have made any difference.

Settle down at lets just see what the season has to offer.

Kyle Orton has a lot to prove. Sure he played a couple of decent games late in the season, however unless he has a steller camp Rex will start, and play, until he is either injured or throws 5 times as many INT's as touchdowns. It's a lot easier to come in when the pressure is off and play well.

A lot of questions and key positions but the schedule looks fairly easy, so +.500 is within reach

Here's my picks:

1. @ Colts - Loss
2. @ Panthers - Win
4. EAGLES - Win
5. @ Lions - Win
6. @ Falcons - Win
7. VIKINGS - Loss
8. LIONS - Win
9. TITANS - Win
10. @ Packers - Loss
11. @ Rams - Win
12. @ Vikings - Loss
13. JAGUARS - Loss
14. SAINTS - Win
15. PACKERS - Win
16. @ Texans - Loss

10-6, second in North, clich Wildcard berth

Anonymous, Orton's career record is too brief to really know anything at all about his abilities. But I'll tell you what, in the Minnesota game I saw great pocket presence with the ability to sidestep the rush. His passing was terrible but then in the Green Bay game, he made the throws that needed to be made. They weren't necessarily long throws, but then in the New Orleans game he threw that strike to Mark Bradley, and of course the 55-yarder to Hester showing that he can in fact launch it deep.

But what does it all mean!? Well, I see a guy with the intangibles (size, pocket presence, limited turnovers) who progressed each game. And I see a guy with a ton of upside who is tired of sitting on the bench and wants to prove he can be the main guy. Nuff said.

estevenj:..Like your passion my man, I'm not a stats guy, but here's something for you to think about regarding Orton's improvement he showed last season. 12/17-Vikes- 22/38 184 yds, 1 Int, 12/23 Hated Pack- 8/14 101 yds, 1 TD (game referenced as Brett's last butt whippin in Chicago), 12/30- Aint's 12/27, 190 yds, 2-TD's, 1 Int....these are roughly the same stats we get from the good Rex, except no fumble's from center in BEAR weather, he also did this with weak running game at that time and holes on o-line i think we might have filled in the draft...The point is REX does have skills, he does not seem to possess the mental approach needed to lead and win, he has a lot of fans ragging on him all the time and his confidence is impacted...Let's give Kyle a shot he has sat,learned, improved his beard and his body, and has the team lockeroom respect, he can win and the competition should prove that out, that's why I say REX got a 1-yr deal as an Insurance policy incase Kyle is not I said before it's Orton time in Chicage, let get ready BEAR fans...


I'm not saying that Orton has a weak arm, but I don't think he has a strong enough arm to run the Bears offense. I say the same thing about Matt Hasselbeck, who is a solid NFL QB. It isn't absolutely necessary to have the strongest arm, but it's a big plus. Grossman has a height disadvantage that Orton doesn't have. There is no argument that Grossman doesn't have sufficient arm strength for an NFL QB however. Did I hear you say that Orton has a stronger arm than Favre? I hope not…because that is absurd.

Grossman's work ethic has been a major issue. After the beginning of the 07' season I was finished with Grossman after those horrible games. He showed that he didn't learn anything from the previous season as far as correcting his mistakes. Grossman's second stint last season proved to me that he grew a lot as a QB though, and I didn't expect that. He was picking up blitzes a lot better and wasn't making mental errors very often. It showed me that he was serious about being a good QB and learning that he had to change his QB style. He still needs to learn not to run backwards and take huge sack though.

I'm of the opinion that with an improved O-line that Grossman will be a Pro-bowl QB which I don't think that Orton could ever be. Orton is trying to make the most of his natural talent and obviously has a great work ethic. Overall, I believe Grossman has finally matured enough, realizes the magnitude of the situation and is ready to be a franchise QB for the Bears which I don't believe that Orton can do. If Grossman doesn't show continued growth I'll be the first to want the Bears to win the Tim Tebow sweepstakes.

I'm all for a competition.

The point I and others are trying to make is that Kyle Orton lacks the passing ability and, frankly, upside of Rex Grossman.

He is a game manager.

He has above average arm strenght, but he is marginally acurrate and doesn't read defenses all that well, focusing on the short patterns and easy routes.

Rex, when he is protected, spreads the ball around more, is more accurate and has a much quicker release.

He does, howevr, have security issues and tends to force passers MUCH more.

It's pick your poison.

If they think they can "run off the bus" this season, Orton is fine.

But if they can't, but realize they have a crop of decent TEs and recievers, Grossman is a better fit.

Orton has proven to be nothing more than a poor man's Jim Miller.

If the Bears win the Tim Tebow sweepstakes, that means they lost 14-16 games, I really don't see that happening. Also, who knows if Tebow will even come out next season? I think between Orton and Grossman the Bears have their QB. I like Orton to be the QB, but I also like Grossman. My only issue with Rex is his durability problems. However in 2006 Grossman did go the distance, and who knows maybe the injury this season was just a fluke? If Rex gets the job I will support him like I always have, and I think he can get the job done if healthy. Actually, Rex kind of reminds me of the last QB to successfully run Turners offense, that player being Erik Kramer. I'm not saying Kramer and Grossman are exactly the same, but there are a lot of similar traits. Both are around 6-1, both have pretty good arm strength, and both have durability problems. Kramer was more accurate, and this is an area that Grossman must improve in to be sucessful. Kramer completed 60.3% of his passes in the best season I have ever seen by a Bear QB back in 95. In week 11 vs the Seahawks, Grossman had his best game completion percentage wise with a 64.8%. Grossmans next best was a 58.8% vs the Chiefs in week two. However Kramer did have a major advantage back then, 1. the Bears had a good offensive line back then, 2. the Bears had a good running game also. This is a major key to either Orton or Grossmans success. I'm hopeing Chris Williams can come on at left tackle and help improve the line play and rookie runner Matt Forte will help with his abilities as a runner, pass receiver, and blocker. A three skill set back can make all the difference in an offense, your not as predictable. Keep one thing in mind about Orton although, in Ortons rookie season when the running game and o-line was on, Orton was pretty accurate in certain games, and this is as a rookie who was clearly not ready for gametime action. In week two of 05 Orton completed 66.6%, week 5 61.5%, week 6 64.0%, week 10 62.0%, and week 11 58.0%, not bad. Also in two games this season vs Green Bay and the Vikes Orton was at 57.0%, not bad for no action in more than a year. This is another major reason why I give Orton an advantage, along with durability. Another thing Orton has in his favor that he didn't his rookie season, Orton is more fundamentally sound, another reason I think Orton could really be primed for a breakout season. Bottom line, with improved line play and help from the running game, I think Orton or Grossman can get it done, with a slight advantage for Orton GO BEARS!!

Hey Brando- Orton does not have a strong arm. It's more noodle like then anything resembling "strong." His accuracy stinks, and needs a gale-force wind to throw the ball down field.

you can win it all with a back up. brad johnson and trent dilfer aren't much better than that. they're boring to watch but they don't make mistakes. they had great defenses to carry them and the bears when healthy could do that.

orton's strength is short and intermediate passes but he can throw it deep. his bigger problem in that area is his throwing motion. I don't know what kind of qb coach pep hamilton is or how hard it is to change your throwing motion.

i'm assuming that grossman will probably be the starting coming out of mini camp. grossman is a show pony. when he knows he's not going to be hit, he's a pro bowler. the bears have been banking on his talent to project on the playing field, but it really hasn't. i know grossman had 5 really great games but that was before teams learned how to plan for him. lets face it, he really can't handle the pressure. honestly i don't think he's been the same since the super bowl. the colts defense broke him, mentally. he basically gave up towards the end of that game and hasn't for, some reason, been the same since.

i've never liked rex grossman and i'm trying to be fair but honestly i think a 75 pound tomato with glue on it would be an improvement, at least it wouldn't look like a deer in headlights.

so grossman will start
probably lose it during the preseason
and hopefully they'll start orton against the colts

Prophet just look at Kevin's numbers man.

I agree with prophet...

Kevin- I'm not saying that the Bears will lose 14-16 games. The Bears would have to trade-up to win the Tim Tebow sweepstakes and he might not enter the draft after his Junior year this upcoming year... If Grossman doesn't work out, one can only hope since Orton isn't the answer....Let's not get ahead of ourselves. With better line protection, Grossman will be a Pro-Bowl caliber QB.

Anonymous,i am right with you on the brian urlacher situation.we should trade his greedy a-- while we can still get a 1st rd pick next year.we will use the draft pick to get our Q.B for the future.but i also heard you say that grossman doesnt have a strong enough arm to be a nfl Q.B WOW are you serious!have you watched this kid play! have you watched any games?? his strength is his arm! i saw him lay a perfect spiral over 60+ yard in the air just last are obviously confused with another Q.B's arm like orton.grossman's strength is his arm strength! GO BEARS!!

We all know rex is the man for us this year!he always has been our guy,he just had no o-line play or R.B last year,cant blame rex for that.he was our #1 pick,he was never surrounded by good players on was always defense they made stronger.they let the offense get old!we have all seen what he can do. he has already helped us get to a superbowl.the kid just needs some protection,a good O-line & a running game.he has proven he is a winner even in college at florida!he was a runner up for heisman trophy for a reason.THOSE WHO SAY HE IS TOO SHORT ARE TOO STUPID!! I dont care if you are 7'7" if you dont have a o-line to protect you & give you some time you will not succeed even if you are tall or short! he has already proven he can succeed with how tall he is,when he has had time.that is stupid,he is 6' that is not that small.some of you talk as if he were a midget.he has not had the luxury of a great o-line,like say tom brady has had.or a good running game.even thomas jones was average at best! orton is a great guy.i like him & feel proud to have him as a back-up.he can handle the dink & dunk style offense like griese.but he is not a starter caliber,big play Q.B like rex is! GO BEARS!

Someone last year thought that Grossman was a miget in the first game of last year. He is a Linebackers coach. Former Defensive coach. This guy went as far is to call Grossman a mental miget.

The winner of the Grossman vs Orton competition should have the support of the fans. As we all know the Chicago fans all pull for the second string quarterback and boo the first string QB particularly if he is having a bad game.

It would be nice to see the #1 signal caller have the support of the fans for once.

Noted below is the only comparison that I can come up with comparing Orton to Grossman. this comparison is from the last half of 2007 with Orton starting the last three games and Grossman starting the prior 5 games before becoming inured early in the Washington Game.

compl/pct TD's Int Sacks Yds/game

Orton (3 games)43/80 53.8% 3 2 2 155.33/game
Total Passing Yards = 478 yards
QB rating = 73.9
Games @ MInn (Indoors)
Green Bay Home
New Orleans Home

Grossman(4 games)73/130 56.2% 3 1 16 224.25/game
Total Passing yards = 897 yards
QB Rating = 86.1
games @ Oakland
Denver Home
New YOrk Giants Home

I am pulling for the Rex who started the last half of 2007 and I do believe he is the best and most qualified of the QB;s the Bears have. I also believe that he can lead the BEars to win the Super Bowl.

Orton and Rex will rotate back and forth as starters because each will win a game or two and then have a meltdown. Ultimately Rex will be the better one and he will play better this year. He will because he hit bottom last year right before he was benched and there's no way to go but up. But Rex/Orton's role is to get us through a couple of seasons while we find a long term answer (again).

Forget Tebow. We won't play bad enough to get him and there's no way we trade up for him. Mortgaging the farm to draft a QB is like going to Vegas. Angelo is smarter than that. But he will try to pick off a QB in later rounds.

Urlacher? He will have to painfully come down to reality. He isn't going to retire. Don't worry about that for one second. We have him under contract for the rest of his career. And just to get him out of the headlines, we offer him $5 mil over and above. Frankly, this is a business and with the powerful position the bears have on him (that he agreed to grant them), that $5 mil gift offer is very generous. It will come down to a bit of a sweetener to allow Brian to save face with his threats, but he will be there for us in training camp and the season. He has no choice here or cards to play. He's never been the brightest light bulb in the chandelier.

11-5. Go bears.

Rex will never play another regular season down in a Bears uniform...can't trust him to take a knee...Rex is one, big "Picarcik hands the ball off to Csonka?!" waiting to happen...

and Kyle Orton is Herman Edwards..

I"m happy for Kyle...he's really come full circle as a man and a player...and he's not a rookie with 25% of the play book half-memorized...I'm excited for him

and I still say we are a dropped TD by Olson, dropped TD by Muhammad, a Bradley bomb drop, and a bad no-call on a 50 yard pass interference away from having this conversation...

Kyle is our w/it

I do get a kick out of the Halas Hall corporate plants on this blog supporting Rex, that a paid gig?

The arm comparisons are my favorite...

LMAO...Muscle Memory classes anyone?!?!?

To whom it may concern (dahlilama, prophet, idc, anonymous, #1bearsfan): Rex's passing #'s are ok. But while they show turnovers in the forms of interceptions, they don't show the numerous fumbles Rex has had. And what about sacks? Dahlilama's stats show Grossman's been sacked 16 times in 4 games. Orton's only been sacked TWICE in three games. That's a huge difference! The O-line may have been bad, but at least Orton has the moves to avoid the rush and buy time in the pocket.

I tell ya, the folks at EA made Grossman in Madden '08 to a tee. He has a great arm, but he's slow on his feet, lacks great accuracy, and either fumbles or gets injured anytime he gets tackled.

Hey Mike: if you are gonna call out so many of us should start with the fact's & not perceptions.the fumbles at center are a problem with whoever kreutz works the research every Q.B. kreutz has worked with has had issues with snaps.(a few fumbled snaps are hardly a career deciding factor anyway's!)the turnovers,interceptions,sacks!they are a result of being killed,because you dont have a decent O-line to protect you & give you make mistakes with a guy in your face trying to make something is no secret our O-line was a to judge Rex under those conditions are just Stupid! A Q.B cannot succeed without good o-line play,he has to have time to step back & throw to his receivers.not get piled on for a sack on your first step back! that just shows you base your info on hear say & rumor.rather than fact's! so be careful when you call people out,that you are actually right in doing so! We will have to wait & knows what will happen. he could end up being a great Q.B with a good o-line or maybe he one really knows till it happens!It's all speculation right now.But i can tell you,if your offense is ugly,your Q.B will be ugly as well.A Q.B need's good O-lineman to succeed.The bear's need to make sure the O-line is shored up,or nothing will work on offense anyway!I would love to see Rex play with a strong O-line in front of him! Plus an above average running game.have a running back that teams actually worry about! GOD BLESS! GO BEARS!

#1bearsfan- that was a typo. I know that Grossman's arm is one of the best in the NFL. He's leagues above Orton as far as arm strength. After that 60 yard bomb last year I went nuts and watched it at least a half dozen times on tivo. I'm with you on the height thing. It's a plus to be 6'4" but it's not necessary as Favre and Young have shown.

Brando- the coach who called Grossman a mental midget was a disgruntled ex-employee who was fired...

Hitman- I can't even respond to the absurdity of what you are saying. Grossman had some crucial passes dropped as well. For example does anyone remember Hester's 50 yard bomb hit right off his shoulder pads... I'm sure we all wish we were on the Halas Hall payroll, but it's not true and we aren't plants. If you haven't paid attention the last couple of years; JA and Lovie obviously prefer Grossman over Orton and Lloyd let one slip when he was signed a few months back, "Rex Grossman is our Quarterback." If you haven't gotten used to it yet you might want to prepare yourself before the season starts.


Did you say: "Kyle is our w/it" ?


It's a long way to the end of pre-season pal.

Do yourself a favor and get a clue. Kyle ain't getting that job without earning it.


quarterbacks are supposed to get better over time but with rex the numbers don't lie.

2007 122 225 1411 54.2 6.27 59 4 7 25 66.4
Career 489 900 5907 54.3 6.56 62 31 33 56 70.9

statistically grossman had a typical year for himself, but he didn't have the defense to bail him out. grossman has not improved at all, in fact he's assets coming out of college are almost nonexistent.
here's espn's view of him in 2003

Notes: Comes from an affluent family. Has a reputation for not making the greatest decisions off the field. Enrolled in January 1999 to participate in spring drills but used his redshirt year in the fall. Started eight games in 2000 and completed 131-of-212 passes for 1,866 yards with 21 touchdowns and seven interceptions. Finished second in the Heisman Trophy balloting as a sophomore in '01, when he was named Associated Press Player of the Year and first-team All-Southeastern Conference. Started all 11 games and completed 259-395-3,896-34-12. In '02, completed 287-502-3,402-22-17.

"Positives: Has a quick release and an over-the-top delivery. Has handled pressure situations well in the past. Has a good -- not great -- arm and throws an extremely catchable ball, especially deep. His mechanics -- especially setup and compact release -- are assets. Seems to be aware in the pocket and buys time with his feet. Has football intelligence and the toughness of a pit bull. Also has good mental toughness. Likes to lift with the linemen. Teammates love his self-confidence and bring-it-on attitude. Can get the ball into tight spots because of his intermediate arm strength. Has a burning desire to win.

Negatives: Can be lazy and rubs people the wrong way at times because of his confidence. Likes to party. Got by on natural talent at Florida. When things didn't go well in '02, Grossman was out of sync a lot and made too many off-balance throws. Can escape pressure but is not a threat to tuck and run. Has average overall mechanics. Accuracy down the field is limited, as it is when he throws on the move. Will need to be schooled on what the "football classroom" means. Struggles in new offense weren't entirely related to fresh scheme and changes in his surroundings, but teams will critique his ineffectiveness without Steve Spurrier and the wealth of talent that left for the NFL in 2002. Didn't display great accuracy at his Scouting Combine workout.

Summary: Another year at Florida probably would not have hurt Grossman, but he figures to be drafted on the first day. "

nobody can objectively look at that and say that grossman has any of those positives anymore. his play on the field has proven that he's digressed significantly.

for the sake of argument lets say rex starts all 16 games in 2008, the bears will probably on be 4-12 or 3-13. you're probably wondering how i came to this conclusion, its simple. any team with a decent pass rush will most likely beat us if rex is the qb. teams have figured out grossman, he withers under a good pass rush. our line won't be great next year but it'll be better than last year but if he starts it won't help. a bad quaterback can make an average line look horrible, just ask the texans about david carr. grossman isn't even half the qb carr is and that's saying a lot.

i know grossman supporters will look to his 5 great games of 2006 but he hasn't had another one since week 8, 2006. teams have him figured out and he'll never be any where close to that again. if you can't believe with your eyes that he sucks, than look at the stats. the mountain of evidence against him is too much to ignore, he's awful. take out those 5 good games of 2006 and his TD to INT ratio looks a lot more rex-like 14 TDs to 20 INTs.

kyle orton might not be the fan favorite or might not even have the "potential" of rex grossman, but ANYBODY will do a better job than rex. you could throw caleb hannie or nick hill into the spot and they would fair the same or slightly better than rex.

rex grossman is TERRIBLE and how he has any supporters is beyond me.

I guess Mike alot of the people here like a run and gun offense. An offense that will score quick but in the same time leave the defense on the field for longer than the offense. Theres been sucsessfull QBs in recent years that doesnt have a cannon of an arm. Montana comes to mind. I just want to see a QB that can make smart desitions insted of trying to make the ESPNs Top Ten every week.

All you Tebow prognosticators are talking about FLORIDA QB's, historically they have no success in the pro's. Grossman still stares down his recievers. The Bears should give Simms, Leftwich and Culpepper a look see if they are healthy, they're better than anything we got now and a servicable stopgap while the search continues, maybe next year Anderson or Quinn shake lose. Maybe they get real lucky with Colorado St. and S.I.U. this season. Looking forward to seeing play out.

I see a lot os responses that say Orton is a game manager on the field, and he is he has done what he has been asked to do, and improved to the point that he is in competition for the job. Now with that said, we have to look for what we need and want in our QB, we want him to be able to read a blitz, understand the playbook and check off when necessary, not just because it looks like the defense is coming, we need him to get the snap cleanly from the center(i know some of this is Kreutz's fault, but you have to have the balls to tell him to get the ball up also), cut down and eliminate turnonvers, make tough throws, and command the teams respect in the lockeroom and in the huddle..We have supported REX over the years and hoped he had success, in these areas he has proven to be below average, Kyle on the other hand was forced on the field before he was ready, then forced to sit behind 2 veteran QB's to watch and learn (this includes Rex), he then gets to come in when people were ready to tank on the season (remember the posters wanting us to loose the rest of our games for a hig draft pick), now he gets his chance to earn the job as; estevenj says, for the season, the kid knows his time is now and I see evidence from him that he is ready to challenge, when(if)he WINS the job we all need to rally around him, as I say each post people REX is insurance only that is why he has a 1 yr deal, I think the team knows its Orton's time, and I think the fans should start to realize this also, I'm ready for the season, and I think Kyle's our QB......Go BEARS
PS. Mike Brown is ready to knock the snot out of somebody, you heard it here first.

Wow joe: way too much info.i can sum it up alot faster in reality on say his stats went down over his time.but there is a reason.his offensive line has been falling apart since the 2006 dont need stats for that.I have said this like 100 times.It all starts up front,that is football,how it is played! if a quarterback does not have good line play,his stats,if thats what you are into are not going to be example of a very good quarterback in tom brady in the superbowl.look what happened to him without protection! so you can throw your stats out the is a team sport.common sense or knowing the game should tell you that,without a good o-line & running Q.B will be good or successful,Period!!!!!!!! any of our Q.B's will play better with a better O-line! I prefer grossman this year for what we have.his talent & upside are greater,he gives us more options with his arm.that does not mean he is our saviour.& will be the next joe one knows that till it happens or if it happens.I like orton,i am happy he is on our team.but too many of you grade grossman with the pathetic o-line he had to play behind,the last few years!or you listen too much to the media!you have to judge people under fair circumstances.GO BEARS! GOOD LUCK IN 2008!

#1 Bearsfan,
I'm not going to accuse you of not reading my post, but something tells me that this was all you read: "To whom it may concern (dahlilama, prophet, idc, anonymous, #1bearsfan)."

I didn't address the fumbled snaps from the center-QB exchange, I only mentioned actual fumbles, ones caused by tackles and sacks from the defense. Rex gets stripped a lot. I did however address the O-line problem and I pointed out that Orton has far better success than Rex in avoiding sacks. And yes, they played behind the same awful line.

Anywho, where's Biggs? I feel like we're all beating a dead horse here. Maybe all the whining and bickering from despondent fans on top of the constant whining and bickering from working with Jay Moronotti (WHERE'S MY HAIRSPRAY??? 'AROUND THE HORN' STARTS IN ONLY TWO MINUTES!!!) finally got to the poor guy.

Next to the QB battle, the left guard battle is the next position showdown that intrigues me the most. I've had a pretty good idea all off-season who the potential players would be that are up for the left guard spot. I just got it confirmed who the two potential left guards are. According to the Chicago Bears official web site, it will be either Terrence Metcalf or Josh Beekman. I figured John St. Clair would be in the mix as well, but according to the Bears web site St. Clair will be kept at tackle. Which to me is the best spot for St. Clair anyways, he is more valueable to the team as a swing tackle, and the Bears don't have another swing tackle on the roster right now. A swing tackle has to be able to man both the left or right side, and St. Clair can. The Bears have a couple young tackles like 7th rounder Kirk Barton out of Ohio st and the kid out of Montana, but I don't think either could handle the left side and will probably both be on the practice squad. I'm hopeing that Beekman gets the position, Metcalf has had a couple chances and has either been replaced or benched. I realize Metcalf was playing hurt last season but thats just it with Metcalf, he has durability problems, and the key to a great line is continuity and its hard to have continuity when your on the sideline. I'm big on Beekman and I liked him coming out of Boston College. Beekman was a three year starter at Boston College at guard and can also play center, Beekman got three starts at center his senior season at Boston college. Beekman will give the Bears a strong inside presence. Beekman and rookie tackle Chris Williams will give the Bears a nice young combo on the o-line. They will both struggle at first but it will be worth it in the long run, and the Bears have got to start somewhere. A lot of fans think Beekman sucks because he did not get on the field last season, also many fans feel Beekman is strictly a center. First off, I think you didn't see a lot of Beekman his rookie season because the Bears generally sit their young linemen their rookie season, much like they did Kreutz in his. Secondly, Beekman got three starts at center his senior season at Boston college so many fans felt he was a center, but no, he will be used at guard. Maybe down the road the Bears might move Beekman to center but I don't see Kreutz going anywhere any time soon, and the center job is his for now. Bottom line, Beekman is the best potential guard the Bears have right now and I think with the most upside. Beekman might not have got on the field but he obviously did some good things on the practice field for the Bears to feel this strongly about him, and not every player is ready right out of college, and I know this from what I read on the web site. I say put Beekman at left guard and Chris Williams at the left tackle spot, if he is ready, and lets develope that line. They will be young and unexperienced, but you have got to start them out young so they can develope together and develope continuity, and the Bears can finally have a young legit o-line GO BEARS!!

Could you guys possibly have longer posts? My goodness. Angelo and Lovie are banking on the offensive line to rebound and play at least average rather than horrible. If this happens, Rex/Orton will have time to throw to the open man. If not, it may be another long season on offense. WR and TE might be pretty deep and will hopefull yield some better results. Throw me the **** ball!!!

ha! yeah that rant was overkill and then some. i just cannot stand rex grossman. i know the line was awful last year but griese and orton can do one thing rex just doesn't do at all, they can side step. i remember when everybody, including me, was bashing the texans o-line because david carr was taking a record number of sacks. once they got rid of carr for shaub/rosenfells, the same o-line looked a lot better. i saw the same thing in chicago last year. don't get me wrong the o-line awful but even more so with rex. i think the david carr compairson is fair because carr looked good in junk time when he had time to throw and rex looks great when he has all day to throw too. i know the bears don't have much to work with at qb, but i hope someday the bears will put to rest the rex grossman experiment

Kevin nice segway Dude. Dude I mean dude. How many times dude are you going to use Beekmans name. Like dude I counted 14 times dude. I see your point, Beekman is a promising gaurd dude, but man dude 14 times.Kevin dude we all get that your a Beekman fan, it cool dude. I just think that the Beekman dude needs at leats 2 games into the season. Most dudes learn off other peoples mistakes , and Beekman last year has seen dudes just plain stink it up. I think this dude Beekman can fair out to be a good and valuable lineman, lets just hope that he is a quick learner.

On a totaly differnt subject, I would like to talk a little about Ricky Williams.

Heres a couple of quotes from this mornings artical in the Sun Times. These quotes are from Williams.

When questioned about if he had been on the boat with Ced Benson.

" I think if I had come down, Things may have worked out a little bit differently. I find I have a calming influence on people I'm around."
"As a high-level athlete, its just something thats ingrained in me. I always think that if Im around, things would be differnt. I cant say how."

Wow. That was funny in a way. I have never been around Williams so I have no idea if he is a calming influence. If he is I might have a good idea on why he is. Ricky hit the nail on the head with his comment of being a HIGH level athlete. Williams should'nt even mention the word high. I wonder..... if Williams was on the boat....

Would Benson have smoked the Ganja? Insted of arguing with the cops, maybe he would have been laughing and joking with them in a coroperating manner.

If Williams was on the boat......

Do you think Benson and company insted of being a little loud and disruptive, they would have been in a circle with Williams in the center meditating? You know Ricky did say, he had a calming inflence on people.

If Williams was on the boat.....

Ced's mom would have took a hit of the marijuana blunt and start to hallucinate. Having to call the paramedics to give her a shot to calm her down, as Ricky can not be a calming influence with this situation.

If Williams was on the boat....

Would he have been the one that had got busted for the possession of marijuana and being under the influence of a calming drug?

Hitman, Olsen never dropped a TD from Orton. I think you're referring to the finale against the Saints last year where Olsen caught the ball in the end zone, got one foot down, but couldn't get his second foot in bounds for the TD. It was so close, but he never dropped a TD pass. In the game before that, Moose dropped a WIDE OPEN, perfect ball in the end zone against the Packers. Now that was a terrible drop and Moose has been guilty of dropping a lot of balls and then putting his QB's under the bus. Good riddance.

Olsen should have had another TD against the Broncos but Fred Miller's holding call made sure that he wasn't going to get credit for that.

Hey Brando, I don't get why you keep taking personal pot shots at people? Are you insecure? Maybe Creighton is right about you? Kevin I agree with the Beekman pick at LOG and the youth that would be served by utilizing him over Metcalf. It is unfortunate as I thought we might have a pretty good guard with Metcalf when he was picked a few years ago, but he seems to take a few plays off and get hurt too much.

I'm Rex Fan, and I trully believe, he'll be a starter for DA BEARS this year,, we will punish the NFC North. GO BEARS

Hi Mike, in response to your comment 05/12, I totally disagree, I think any wide receiver should be able to do everything, ofcourse the plays change based on the WR speed.

I just love (not really) all of the comments that mention that Orton has a weak arm, or is nothing more than a backup, or is nothing more than a game manager. Really, I think the only fault that you can really pin on Orton is that he didn't get drafted in the first round, and that he has a really lousy beard.

As for the rest of it, we just don't know. He's played less than a full season for the Bears in the 3 years he's been with them. What he has shown is that, unlike Grossman he has pocket presence, he has pocket mobility, he's not injury prone and he makes very few turnovers. Yes he hasn't been accurate enough, but that can be improved. I think he deserves a season with no one looking over his shoulder to see what he can do.

I don't doubt that Grossman has more talent, but I don't see him overcoming his weaknesses. I hope he proves me wrong, but the guy just makes me cringe when he gets into trouble. He has lousy football instincts and I think that this is one of the reasons he's injury prone. In short, he's unreliable, and quarterback is not a position you want an unreliable guy.

I got to give a shout out to Lance Briggs. That was cool as heck how Briggs came out and stuck up for Urlacher. I realize Urlacher did the same thing for Briggs, I just think its cool that these guys get along and stick up for each other. I say pay Urlacher and him and Briggs will be a hell of a combo for years to come GO BEARS!!

i like the peice on ricky williams. under the influence of a calming drug lmao! i realy hope that this year there will be a meaning to playing the game.last year was a lack luster year. i want to see some sexy tight end play with some hard hitting defense.time to step up boys and show us what your made of. kisses greg olsen!

I thought orton was in great shape last year and ready to take over? Where did that get him in 07 ? Given time, Grossman is the man. Needs to learn how to tuck and run when protection breaks down tho.

Face it. Neither quarterback has done anything to tell anyone that they can be the man for their team long term. Maybe a game here or there, but not the answer. I favor Orton over Grossman b/c:
1. He won't lose it. Our D (when healthy) will get turnovers and sacks. They will make a lot of plays. But those plays mean less when the offense turns it right back over.
2. Orton is less susceptible to blitzes up the middle. He is tall, and can see the HOT route, and deliver.
3. Orton simply fits the mold of what the Bears claim to want to be (a power running team)by not blowing the game. Grossman has blown at least 3 games in his career (MIA, NE, Indy). And also farted away another opportunity to beat GB in the 06 season finale.

Here's the thing. I think Grossman should be kept around as a back up till (if ever) we find that QB that can be the answer. He will keep Orton up to the challenge. He can be good in spurts. But it still is the same ole story for the Bears. They have 2 decent qb's which means they really have no starter.

Of course Briggs is supporting Urlacher. It's one way for him to get back at the organization he literally had to crawl back to with his tail between his legs because no other team cared about him.
For once I agree (and this really hurts) with Jay Mariotti. Briggs is a clown. His recent escapades with paternity suits (My! He wasn't kidding when he said he needed more $ to feed his family)and "car troubles" should give him a one way ticket out of town. But shucks, he's got some good stats so let's sign him up long term and hope he's ready for game day.

Just like Leonard Little, Chris Perry, Ray Lewis, Marvin Harrison, Tank Johnson, "Pacman" or any other athlete who has decent numbers people will look the other way.

The term "class act" is a fallacy. No one really cares what these guys do off the field. Teams just want to win. The Cowboys are a perfect example. Look at Angelo and the nice young men he picked up in the middle of the draft.

I want to talk about Ron Turner.
Last year opposing teams, as well as broadcasters, mocked the Bears' offense, saying that the Bears were running the exact same plays as they did the year before.
Personally, I often wanted to barf every time they'd pass the ball to Hester (and other recievers) who were waiting at the line of scrimmage. only to be immediately pummeled.

What are the odds that Coach Turner implements some fresh, innovative plays into the offense this season? Plays that actually catch the competition off-guard and make the most of our athletes' individual strengths and speed?

Finally... somebody please enlighten me ... has Ron Turner EVER won a championship, on any level?

Mike you think people just learned to look the other way. People have been looking the other way since the early part of every sport. Do you honestly think that there have been nothing but choir boys in sports? North Dallas Fourty was one of the first books that came out and talked about the things that athletes did. I've read plenty of books where guys like Ditka would joke about drinking and driving all the time. The media just wasn't as willing to tell all like they do now. Guys have been drinkers,druggers,womanizers and wife beaters since the 40s and before but it wasn't good to print those things. I'm not about to cry and complain about the ways of the players today because the world as a whole is going to hell in a shopping cart. CEOs of organizations steal money from people and dress in women's undergarments. Priests and clergymen are pedophiles. Where do we begin to be embarrassed? Why should we expect a jock to represent a team when it's every man for himself from top to bottom? The face of your organization had unprotected sex with a woman who accused another man of rape. Had a dalliance with a bubble-headed celebrity that played out on national TV while his team was getting their butts kicked. The game was an afterthought. Tell me why that's not a crying shame? When is enough enough or too much?

I am losing faith in the bears by the horrible ownership and money hungry players. This League is turning into hollywood.The Nfl network is E! I don't get why we are so interested in their lives and where they live.

In defense of Ron Turner, plenty of guys go their whole career without winning any sort of championship either as a coach or a player. I think RT is just utilizing his players in a manner that doesn't make them think too much. I feel like the mental midget expectation is hurting the BEARS as well. RT didn't draft Rex or Ced but he's stuck making $#it into shinola. He's just scared that all hell will break loose if he gameplanned like everyone did and these players still looked atrocious.. He's like a soccer mom trying to protect her little Jimmy. He knows it doesn't work that way but if his GM isn't asking for a change why should he?

To all us Bear junkie's craving something to talk about in what is the slowest time of year -

Please keep paragraphs shorter.

Nothing more can be said about Rex and Kyle or the fact either need better pass protection

Kudos to Beardown bringing in the topic of Ron Turner. He stinks. I can still remember John Madden saying before the snap on 3rd and 25 - "the bears don't have a play for 3rd and 9 so they sure don't have a play for 3rd and 25."

Now here's a few questions for discussion that are very important but get little discussion:

Will Dvoracek stay healthy and be an impact player (I say 50/50 so better plan without him)? What about Bazuin(cut by season's end)? Our safety play has been horrendous. Assuming Brown does not hold up - will Lovie/Jerry finally give up on Manning by mid-season (i say yes) and who will be our most reliable starters this year (I say McGowan and Payne)?

Finally, I'll repeat - our O will be poor but modestly improved. By improve I think we'll get more first downs and improve time of possession a bit. That will help our D stay healthy and 4th quarter capable (recall the Detroit, NY Giants, and Minnesota meltdowns). We will make a return to winning ugly via D and turnovers and will stay much healthier.

11-5. That's plenty to win the North. Tavaris stinks and Adrian will be hurt many of this year's games. The Packers are so over rated. The only difference between 4-12 and 13-3 for them is Brett going from one of his worst seasons ever (near 30 pics) to one of the best for a QB in recent memory. Most of the rest of them are very average. They're D will be on the field more and exposed for it's mediocrity. Look for Al to be thrown at alot more after what T.O. and a one ankled Plaxico did to him. And they've lost the fewest games to starters being injured the last three years. They're due for some.

I agree with Kevin (there I said it) on the Beekman and Williams thing but don't be surprised when Big Cheese makes a move on a job he's a grader and should be good in the Bears blocking scheme. Also you might be surprised by Hanie at QB I hope Lovie is actually telling the truth about open competion at all postions. The young people Angelo brought in after closer study are gambles but if half pan out it could be interesting for a long time barring serious injury. It's a shame NFL Europe is gone some of these players would have benefitted from the pt. Watch closely if (I do mean)if the comp is open camp could be a lot of fun.

Hello:everyone here makes good point's! thats what makes it fun,all these ideas & opinions.then waiting to see what actually happens,when they play.I have been a die hard bears fan for 37 years! I have been through alot of ups & downs.whether i agree with what they do or not.At the end of it all,I am a die hard fan & there to support the team,win or lose!!Our current management has gotten us to a superbowl(that very few teams get right back to the following year anyway).Although i dont agree with many of the decisions on personnel.I am not a g.m. I am a is easy to look in & say what to do or dont do.there is alot that goes on behind closed doors.that we will never know about! like maybe we get mad the bears dont take a certain player.but maybe that player refused to play here,but we dont hear about that.I do trust them & believe they will get us back to another superbowl again.With all the devastating key injuries last year.& the fact our O-line was non-existent! It is hard to blame much on anyone in particular.or unfair to judge individual players.without a fair playing field to prove themselves.Too many people refuse to see how bad key injuries hurt this team last year!If you do the research on all the key players lost to injury.all key positions got hit.cohesiveness is critical to offense or defense,in order to be successful.injuries destroy that cohesiveness.Its hard to keep a groove when young guys you havent played with,start getting plugged in.we were only 2-games away from the play-offs.with a team limping along through the year,playing 3rd string players! the year before we were in the superbowl.This is a team game.If healthy?,this will be a very competitive ball club next year!the young players gained valuable experience,having to play last year.when our "D" is healthy,we dont need many points to win.we have the best special teams as well! Although we still have work to do on offense, I believe we will see improvement on offense this year! enough to stay competitive.Everybody here brings good points though.That's just my humble opinion!! GO BEARS!! GOOD LUCK IN 2008!!

If Mike Brown goes down again, which I hope he doesn't, but if he does, I think Danieal Manning should be fine at free safety. Manning actually hasn't been all that bad considering. His rookie season he had 70 tckl and 2 ints, and last season he had 79 tckl and 2 ints, which aren't bad numbers. Also you have got to realize Manning is coming from tiny Abilene Christian to the NFL, thats a big jump. I say give the guy one more season before throwing in the towl on him. With Mannings speed and athletic ability he could be special once he gets a little more comfortable, and that means the coaching staff not trying to make him into a corner, thus sitting him back. Yes I do realize this was also partly due to a rash of injuries. Bottom line, give Manning one more season, and watch out for Kevin Payne, who if not for the injury I think would already be in the starting lineup, and would bring the Payne back to the box GO BEARS!!

Kevin, I hope you're correct about Daniel. But the problem with the stats you quote is they don't show missed tackles in the open field. I mean he plays matador defense. He was in the clear to push Adrian Peterson and others out of bounds numerous times and looked like a punter trying to make the shove.

He's got to show me an ability to do what a safety is paid to do - recover for your D when someone breaks loose through the front 7. His woeful experiment at corner did not cause his root issue. He's fast but can't tackle anyone or make a hit. There's also a big difference between foot speed on the straight and cutting ability to adapt to routes.

Agreed about Payne though. I think between McGowan, Payne, and Stelz we'll have two solid safeties. I do hope Daniel plays well enough that we can then afford to trade somebody for a #4 draft pick.

djssr, dude I got to disagree about Beekman, for whatever reason the guy didn't even dress last year and never played with the first or second teams in practice. Oline guys need playing time together if they are going to start together, also you need time on the field to adjust to the speed of the NFL and again Beekman has not done any of that. I see the line looking like this, Williams, St. Clair(Lovie already said there is a real good chance for this), Olin, Garza and Tait. Even with the move Tait is still a year older and I would like to point out that one reason they thought it would be good for Tait to be at LT was because of a bad Ankle, when he went to Lt his other Ankle also got bad, he actually has two bad ankles you can look it up in his injury history which is pretty long. That said Olin is also a year older and is not as good as he once was, Williams is a rookie, Garza blows, St. Clair stinks as well.

Oh some news updated if people have not already heard them, Lovie has named Benson the starter, now lst I checked Lovie said he was not naming anyone the starter this year but so far has named Brown, Benson, St. Clair and Bradley as starters, I know I left some guys out butit's just a point.

Oh and Kevin P remember when you where saying Williams had a huge wing span and that he didn't have short arms, well JA just announced today that Williams arms are a little short, his left being really short at 31 inches and his right being around 32, with 34 being ideal and anything longer being excellent. I don't think it will matter much but just getting the facts out there.

As for the WR sense I have skipped them this week. I will continue to skip them, the Bears suck at WR end of story. Unless someone can find some wat to change a plyers history these guys are all bad. Hey I like Book but he does drop the ball and is usually tops in the league in that catagory, he is a good locker room guy and runs good routs, but is past his prime, slower than he used to be and has some injury issues. But I am glad he will probably retire a Bear. Lloyd there are no misunderstandings with this guy, he was bad in San Fran and he was bad in Washington, lockeroom cancer and probably won't make the team. Davis is a solid slot got and a guy who will start above Bennett at that position, Hester is what the coaches said he is a guy will be doing pretty much the same thing he did last year, Bradley is injury prone and I leave it at that he also didn't play last year unless you want to count a few downs, then of course you have the TE situation. The Bears are solid there but not close to being the best in the league. Olsen and Clark combined for 936 yards and 6 TD's, there TE in the league who had better numbers than both of them combined, Olsen has upside but Clark is entering his 10th season and will be on the downside of his career. Witten in Dallas, Cooley in WAS, Winslow in CLE, Gonzales KC and Gates SD. So while they are very good I don't think they are elite.

TE: Very Good
RB: Bellow Average
OL: Very Bad(it's the same group except for one guy who is a rookie)
WR: Bottom 5 in the NFL
QB: Bottom 10 in the NFL no matter who starts

Defense will spend to much time on the field again this year and become susceptible to injuries and late collapses.

The Bears will continue to take another step backwards from there 06-07 season as age, injury and lack of depth at key positions haunt them. Offense again will be the big problem but defense will also continue to regress.

Whatever happend to Manning is the direct fault of the coaching staff. How many times did they switch him to nickel back? He regressed because of this and needs to get back to basics in regard to tackling, and taking proper angles.

Hey guys, I'm going to throw my two cents in, here. Let me say, that as with most of you guys, I am a Bears fan first and foremost. Probably longer than most of this current roster has been alive. So I really don't care about the name, the college, the time in the league or any of that. If a player comes in and performs well, then they are alright with me. And that appears to be what most, if not all here cares about. I want the best possible players on the field at all times. Rex or Kyle? I don't really care. If they truly have an open competition, then I'll support the one that comes out on top. Both of them have strengths and both have their weaknesses. So let the best man win. I do believe with better O-line play, our entire offense will play better as a whole. We all here it, "It starts up front". It's truly hard to gauge players when our line got dominated on a consistent basis. Our QB play suffered. Our running game suffered, as well as the passing game. So everyone stats looked bad, and are really of no use here. Let's all just hope we can get that O-line shored up and our offense can be more productive, no matter who starts. As long as they have the "C" on their helmet, then they are alright with me.

We all want a better year than last. That's obvious. So let's get behind our team and hope we get all of our problems taken care of and become one of the leagues elite for years to come. We do have talent on this team. And teams have won with less. So it can be done! GO BEARS!

Creighton, P remember on the night before the draft you said that you heard fron the score that the Bears were going to cut Benson, and now here we are a month later and Benson is the starter. I don't think it will matter much either, but just getting the facts out there also.....GO BEARS!!

Oh sure, Devon 'Dropsie' Hester is an improvement? Jeez. A punt/kick returer, who cannot play another position in the league is better than Muhammed? Muhsin was wrong for throwing his QBs under the freight train, but he was a pro. He dropped too many passes, but he was a good player. Leave Rex/Kyle/Sonny Six Killer alone, knowITalls. They will play decently if you shut the blazes up and let them...

Creighton, Angelo never said that Williams has short arms, maybe average. At the combine Williams arms were measured at 33 and a half inches, the Bears also measured Williams arms at 33 inches.
Angelo said 32 are short, 33 are acceptable, and 34 are ideal, so actually Angelo said that Williams arms are acceptable, not short, I got the info from the Tribune. Creighton, I think you need to slow down when you read some of these articles. Im assuming you got your info above from the article in the Tribune, am I right? Also Creighton, nowhere in that article did it say that the BEARS measured Williams left at 31 inches and his right at around 32 inches. What it said was that SOME team, not the BEARS, measured Williams right at 33 and a half [ where are you getting 32?] and his left at 31 and a fourth. The article also said the average NFL tackles arms are 33 inches, I noticed you conveniently didn't mention that either. Also another example of you needing to slow down and pay better attention is, on the night before the draft you were so hyped on the Bears getting Mendenhall, that you heard some rumor the Bears were gonna cut Benson and you took it as fact, am I also right about this? So Creighton, what I'm trying to say is slow down when you read and hear things, and maybe stop the selective reading and hearing, especially when your trying to get the FACTS out there. So in the end I was right, Williams does not have short arms, and if you were wondering where I read that Williams had an impressive wing span, it was in Lindy's pro football draft guide, get one and read it if you don't believe me. Creighton, I still like you, just slow down and stop jumping the gun so always GO BEARS!!

Kevin, I too read the same artical as you did. You right on the money!

Im surprised Kevin that you missed one thing.

Creighton more than one guy is missing from the opening day starting line up from the O-Line. Should I quote ya nahh.

Now I do remember that the Bears drafted 2 linemen and signed 3 other ones from the rookie free agent pool. Waite not done, they also released Fred Miller and Ruben Brown.

The Bears QBs in the bottom 10???

I have compiled a list of teams, that it is my opinion, That are worse off at the QB possition then the Bears. In no appernt order:

and the

And thats not to say that the:

and the

Wont have problems at the QB position.

Last year wasnt the worst year, even though as I read a couple of peoples blogs, I would have thought that the Bears lost all 16 games. You know negativity leads to stress, that can lead to high blood pressure and could shorten your lifespan. Stress can lead to waite gain or waite loss, Gray hair, Alopecia, or loss of hair alltogether, bad moods and depression. High Blood Pressure can lead to DEATH. Creighton lighten up. Live alittle longer.

On the list of teams I had mentioned, Im not saying that one of the Bears QBs will have a better year stat wise, I just know that the Bears Qbs have a little something that those other top 13 teams, Qbs dont have. A proven track record of winning!!!

With Rex he can and shown he himself can be a game breaker. He also has shown that he can help the loosing cause. Rex has bailed the team out on a couple of ocations but he also has led the team in having to fight to get back into the game. He does have a winning record none the less.

Kyle, well he has shown that he can obey the coaches orders and do what they ask of him. So far has been a quiet leader. He has yet to show both us fans and the organization that he can be a game breaker. Mananger yes Gun Slinger no. Kyle has shown that he can avoid the rush, get the ball out quickly with a long slow release ( does that make sence... sure it does) and is able to read the defense on the fly. Even still he has a Winning Record!!!

With the first 13 teams none of the projected starters at the QB possition, has a winning record(Im saying with at least 8 games started). The 2 of the 6 other teams have doubts about their 07 opening day starters to stay healthy I.E. the Rams and the Panthers. Jay Cutler and Chad Pennington have been inconsistent. Jeff Garcia ( would have look good in a 07 Bears Uniform) is a little less mobile, lost a step and his arm streanth has lost a little zip also age isnt on his side. Well that leaves Brian Anderson. Rex had simular numbers is 06, they both have had All Pro games and Some Ugly games in there first full year as a starter. Its up to Brian Anderson to prove himself as a legit starter in the NFL. Something Rex is still trying to prove.

Creighton just to shine some light on your subject the Bears are in the middle of the pack when it comes to QB play and stats. There not horrible but not spectacular. Both QBs have proven one thing and that is that they can win. Both have their style. Both have a way different style. Both the style of Kyle's play and Rex's play can work for this team. Lets give em a chance before sealing their faite.

Booker is deffinetly an upgrade over Moose and as Far as Qb I think i will be orton hes had four years on the bench and we should not look at what he did in 05 cause that year is over Forte is going to beat out Benson so i think this offence looks alot better now if are defense can just stay healthy will be okay


Say something else for the negativists out there -

An O line will take time to develop. There's an incredible talent every couple of years like Joe Thomas who has an impact in year 1. Most first round picks on the line start year one but don't hit their stride until year 2 or 3. And draftees below round 1 usually play little if at all in year 1. They work the weight rooms (an nfl strength program takes 12-24 months to deliver) and practice squad and are ready in year 2 or 3. So give Williams, Beekman, big cheese and Kirk Barton some time before you trash them.

You've got to be realistic on the line - they'll be disorganized for a few games, improve at mid-season, and improve another traunch late in year. But it takes time. I can hear some of you blabbing about Angelo's #1 being a bust because he gives up sacks his first 2 -3 games.

Don't dismiss the concept of Rueben Brown being signed for a year if he's healthy. I think it's a long shot that you can start 2 guys on the left side who haven't started an nfl game yet (beekman, williams). Odds of success are very low for that.

Wow Brando, I did one of those to show the Bears might not have a top 5 qb situation, but it could be worse. WRD, did the offseason make you lose your Rex love. Thought Culz and I had another crew member to fight this Orton thing, like we fought spaghetti armed Griese backers who swelled up and had him lose the season for us last year.

I love the Bears, not like my wife or kids, but in a manly way. Sometimes I just wanna see Orton take the field and stink it up(like he's gonna,) but I'm a Bears fan first and foremost, and I wanna see them win.

Keep Rex, the more accurate qb in there, please no stats, I know he's better with my own eyes. Hitman does have some valid points at times, until his opinion takes over(of course at least it is HIS opinion).

But the main thing is, most of us want to see the bears win, last season was a fluke, and our retooling efforts...even though they weren't great, they were good this offseason. Let's hope Lovie and RT corrected their coaching mistakes because seriously, if Eli can win the SB, then damn.... why not us?

Good call phil I agree 100% also Williams will be seeing Freeney in the first game there's a welcome to the NFL for you Garza's job could also be in jeopardy, I had a chance to see the Big Cheese live in game action as I have moved to SEC country, he's a beast on the run and atheletic for a large man he will be a very good guard someday soon, but Bear fans take heart I was angry at the run on injured players but they are solid picks if heathy and I understand they are healthy if Lovie is telling the truth the comp will be good and make the team better that old axiom about players in the draft not making a difference if the competition is really open maybe a few surprizes? STAY TUNED...

i think signing gould was also pleased with the draft picks you cant argue with angelo about defensive players. i also agree with the williams draft pick,forte pick,bennett,davis,barton,monk,are all capable of contributing sometime in the future,some earlier than on to the guard and receivers,ithink garza and beekman should start at guard because metcalf isn't durable.i believe the reciever out will be lloyd, ithink the starters will be booker,bradley. the third reciever should be bennett but it will be hester,i dont think he is ready yet but thats up to the team.monk was very impressive at rookie workouts and angelo wont put him on practice if he thinks the guy can play now.lloyd hasn't done much except the one year with the niners and even that year wasn't that impressive. so to include lloyd,metcalf wont be starters and one or both could be cut heres to the bears getting younger and hopefully better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Philbert nice way to put it. You put the negativity in a realistic manner. No bashing of players, coaches, or the GM. Just a realistic outlook on the possibilty of what is to happen.
Creighton take lessons from this reaspectable young man.(Philbert)

My last thoughts on the QB situation.

I think the contract difference between Rex and Kyle indicates Rex will be shown the door first if he doesn't play well. I don't think it has anything significant to do with who is getting the starting job this year.

I think Rex beats Kyle out in an even competition, but, OL and RB play will more likely determine whether or not he finishes the season as the starter...or returns as a Bear next season.

I just hope the Bears can stay away from injuries and improve upon last year.

I really don't think that because of Jackson the Vikes will suck at all, in fact Jackson will be a year better and with the additions the Vikes as a whole will win the North. They didn't do too bad last year (8-8)and they are tons better. Da did terrible last year and we are a little better maybe with a healthy D and new LT/WR/RB we can improve to 9-7, this is a tough year to figure as injuries did hurt but our O line hurt the most and it will be a huge question on OG. I am excited by the new guy's and believe they will help alot in the years to come but next year maybe not ready yet.
WR -
Bradley - if healthy will excell
Hester - with another year will help alot (speed kills)
Booker - another Mushin but a little better
Davis - again with another year will be solid
Loyd - who knows?
Bennet - needs a year but a solid rookie year
Monk - needs a year (maybe will excell first year)
hmmmm - on second thought maybe we need another WR (a good one)
Benson - get off his back he's boatin....
I really hope it is open competition as it never has before.
Da Bears!

Creighton: you said the the bears arent even close to having one of the better T.E. tandem's in the are wrong again.actually the bears had like the 2nd best T.E tandem in the league.Brando: can you cut down a little on your full page responses!!!WOW,it took me a minute to scroll down the list,to get to the next response.You are gonna wear yourself down,take it easy,slow down,relax a bit!GOOD LUCK BEARS IN 2008! GO BEARS!!

Kruetz is a wily vet, Tait is also a gamer and will do better on the right side, we had nothing going at ROT last year. The line will be better as the season progresses with both OG the weakness.

Running back will be better with Forte, he will add a dimension that Benson doesn't have and that is catching out of the backfield and blocking for the QB.

Tight end is better with Olsen a year improved, the WR's are better and Hester still changes defensive assignments by just lining up, which allows for others to make plays. Also Hester can get deep with an 81 and 55 yard TD last year and was utilized more significantly at the end of 2007 averaging close to four catches per game and 15 yards per catch. Remember the Bears were 15th in the league in passing yards with 210 yards per game in 2007.

QB play will be better than last year with less bad Rex, his last four games in 2007 showed the improvement with better game decisions.
Orton will be fine,should Rex turns into the bad Rex.

The Bears Offense will be in the top 20 in 2008 and the D will be in the top 3 and could be #1. Special teams with Hester also will be in the top 3 giving the Bears outstanding field position particularly on kick offs. My only major concern is that I still think play calling and 2nd half adjustments by the coaching staff is medicre at best, we have lost games because these two coaching related areas.

2008 will unfold with Bears spliting with Vikings, sweeping the Pack and the Lions, winning the NOrris and finish with the second best record in the NFC at 11-5. The defense will turn 85 ish for the playoffs and dominate, taking the Bears all the way to the Superbowl and a win in the big one.

SuperBowl MVP will be Devin Hester.

Mrs McCaskey please bring back the honey Bears!!

I can do that Bears Fan. All fans should be happy as glee on the Bears Tight End situation.

Here's my opinion as to comparing this year's team versus last. May be a repeat of my optimism for some. I offer it as kind of a mid to late season view once our young guys get some experience:

QB: Slightly better only because Rex's butterflies will be reduced since he hit bottom getting benched. He won't look over his shoulder as much. Obviously Kyle could improve and take the slot but either way we'll be slightly better

RB: Improved. Forte is the real deal and stays healthy. Only concern is if he turns out to drop the rock

WR: Improved. Berrian over rated. Booker, Bradley, Earl, & Monk will be a better combo

O Line: Improved both in new faces, far fewer false starts without miller, and better health

Special Teams: Same but nobody will kick to Devin so he won't score as much. So a net slight negative

D Line: Much better. Both health and properly placed committment to alex brown

LB: Better. Brian will show last year an aberration

DB: No comparison - way better. Healthy Corners and more depth everywhere now that McBride, McGowan, and Payne have some wear on their tires.

Net result: Still struggling offense but more first downs and time of possession. D comes back to a top 5 unit. We will be crowing about Jerry's solid draft class.


Chuck You know I have never been an out and out Rex backer. I always said that benching him did him a favor because he was coasting on automatic from 2006 until he was benched. Benching him gave him a better perspective to go out and play more like a leader. He has shown that he is mental and I didn't see enough of him later in 2007 to say yah or nay that he was much better. Now, Orton. He is not accurate short or long. I don't know where people got that. I can't put his college stats up there and say he's this or that because I know full well that that rarely translate in the pros. For a guy who is 6'4" he sure plays 5'11". He was getting worse as 2005 progressed. And what he showed at the end of 2007 was on par with what Chad did at the end of the year before he was cut at the start of the next season. I was not impressed and I'm sure that just about every back up who entered a game played head and shoulders better than he did. But because this is Chicago,and even average is hard to find, he looks relatively good. But I'm sorry he's not. Between him and Rex I'd always go with Rex because no matter how bad Rex is his worse is still better than Orton's best. C'mon; 5 INTs is bush league. Kordell Stewart never did that with us and he didn't get half the chance that Orton did. Kordell rarely played in preseason and when he did they didn't play his brand of ball. But since you can't fail with Chicago and stay in the league he was out. I'm sorry but Orton is not very good.

William R. Donald, I disagree with you about Kyle Orton. I think Kyle Orton is going to be the Bears QB. Don't get me wrong, if Rex out plays Orton in the pre-season, give him the job and I will support Rex all the way. I also disagree that Grossmans worse is better than Ortons best. I'll give you the only fair comparison of Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton that you can of the 2007 season. The only fair comparison would be to compare Rex's first three starts with this seasons offense to Orton's first three starts.
Grossmans stats first 3 starts
att comp pct yds tds int
89 47 52.8 500 1 6

Ortons stats first 3 starts
att comp pct yds tds int
79 42 53.1 475 3 2
Keep in mind, this is not an entirely fair comparison either. Why you might ask? Simple, before Grossman got his first three starts he had the entire pre-season to work with the starters, Orton got thrown in with only one week to work with the starters. After the comparison, Orton and Grossman are pretty even till you get to the tds to ints ratio. Also William, its not fair to bash Orton on his rookie season. Orton was thrown to the wolves his rookie season, also keep in mind not all rookie QB's are ready straight out of college, Orton was one of them. Orton's rookie season he needed work on some of his mechanics, like most young QB's do, so the more of Orton defenses saw his rookie season, the easier it was to defend Orton, and this was the reason for the decline his rookie season. The Bears did the right thing by sitting Orton for a couple seasons to work with Orton on his mechanics and the playbook. This season I saw a different player, I say with some time to work with the starters to get in sync with the wideouts Ortons numbers will only get better. Also if you noticed in the comparison Rex has a tendency to throw a lot of picks, especially when he gets rattled, Orton does not. Example, other than the 5 pick game vc Cincy, name another game Orton threw more than 2 picks in all of Ortons starts? I really think with more time to work with the starters last season, Orton could have easily thrown 6tds to 1int. A lot of Ortons problems this season was simply timeing, which can be fixed with time to work with your receivers. If you break down the three starts Orton got this season, and the drops by the wideouts, you will see what I mean about the 6 to 1 thing. I say let Orton and Grossman battle it out in pre-season, and I think Orton is going to surprise some fans GO BEARS!!

my dislike of grossman's playing ability is well known, so what i'm going to say is going to be mostly bias when you look at the three games they both started their're some differences which the stats do not mention, the weather. don't worry though, the stats condemn rex just as much.

the three games rex started were in september and they were all in the 70s. each one of those games were played in quarterback friendly conditions

even in these conditions the offense under grossman only averaged 11 points a game. devin hester had one punt return in those three games or it would have been worse. w/o hester's return it would have been 8.67 average, barely a touchdown.

grossman's interceptions were far more costly than orton's. in the game against the chargers he threw an int when the bears were in the red zone and in the dallas game he threw a pick 6 to anthony henry. bears record 1-2

orton however had his three starts in december. the game against the vikings was in a dome so i can't say much there but the other two games were in chicago. both games in chicago were played in awful conditions with the temperature in the teens and the wind chill made it sub zero.

the offense under orton averaged 27 points per game. hester had one punt return against the saints and to be fair, if you take away his touch down it would be 24.67 per game. orton's int weren't as costly as grossman's. the int at the end of the vikings game wasn't at all, it was a last minute hail mary trying to tie the game, which the vikings ended up winning 20-13. bears record 2-1

in grossman's defense the defense allowed 19.33 points per and only 17.33 for orton. grossman had the starters for the most part while orton had the weather, for the most part. so that pretty much a wash. the strength of the opponents were similar too grossman had 575.67% while orton had 583.67%, another wash.

lets imagine that grossman had play in similar decemeber chicago conditions. rex did play one game in 06 that had similar conditions, week 13 against the vikings. didn't have a 6.0 passer rating?

when i look over all the stats with the intangibles included it only points to one thing, rex grossman will lose you games. orton at this point in his career is far superior to rex grossman. i agree with william, average is hard to find, but orton might just be that, which is great. orton did have one 5 int game but i agree with kevin's points about that. orton may appear to be just a manager but that's all we need.

one last thing, i hope this is my final t-wrex rant. with any luck he'll sit the bench and be gone next year, a boon the the mental stability for all bears fan.

one more grossman rant stat. here's orton's stats from 05
att comp pct yds tds int 15 games played
368 190 51.6 1869 9 13
rex grossman 2003-2005 8 games played
att comp pct yds tds int
195 105 53.1 1303 4 6
rex grossman just sucks because he hasn't improved. kyle orton played with the same sorry offense and managed to improve. orton's passer rating improved from 59.7 to 73.8, while grossman's hovers in the mid 60's.

once again stat over kill. a three word sumation, rex grossman sucks.

I'm so tired of all the Rex bashing I read on these posts. Why is it that Turner doesn't get the criticism that he deserves? The O-line was doing an extremely poor job at stopping the pass rush. Did Turner put Rex in the shotgun? Provide him with more than 2 receivers? have some movement in the back field? Have them execute some screen passes? How many dropped passes did the Bear's receiver's have? Turner's play calling is HORRIBLE and most often leaves Rex out to dry, getting him sacked or the play stuffed. No imagination. The coaching is a major reason why the Bear's finished where they did in 06 and 07.

Why Rex is not the problem with Chicago's offense:
1. Ron Turner
2. Offensive Line
3. Angelo (Sticking with Benson over Jones or Peterson)
4. Terrible receivers: Dropped passes or no passion to get to the ball.
5. Ron Turner (Mickey Mouse play calling)
6. Ron Turner (Not Utilizing his offensive play makers like Hester while Rex was in)
7. Rex NEVER in the shotgun.
8. ALL the injuries

Did you notice that when Griese came in for Rex in the Washington game that Hester became a big part of the offense and most of the plays were run from the shotgun? Even when they play hurry-up, like in the game against Dallas, Rex was under center. They sat Rex and had Griese pass 52 times against the Lion's who were 32nd in the league against the run! In the game against the Chargers when we had a second and 2, Turner had the offense run essentially the same running play three times. They gained ONE yard! Turner didn't open up the offense until it was too late in the season.

Finally, people talking about Rex's height need to get a clue. Rex has an inch on Drew Brees. I suppose the Saint's should start looking for a taller QB as well??

Tuzi, if Rex gets put in the shotgun, you can expect A LOT MORE fumbled snaps. Do we remember the Superbowl? Sure, there were problems with the offense, but how is it that Griese had more TDs than Rex and how is that Orton avoided getting sacked better than Rex?

Joe, since you want to put stats up...what defenses did Rex play against, and were the first 3 games at home? Was there any pressure? You remind me of a certain type of Justice...slant the stats to your way.

What defenses did Orton play against? Were the games away or home? Was there any pressure?

Ummmm, Joe, you are so slanted in your opinion, I don't know where to start....OK I lied Rex played in worse conditions in the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME against the Saints. Looked pretty good to me. Man you put up numbers, I put up reality.

Hell, he looked better in the game against THE FALCONS after coming off ankle surgery in terrible conditions also, the game Kyle blew the big one!!! I could respect Griese fans because at least he does have a much higher Regular season qb rating(for what that bunch of garbage is worth), so they have a little leg to stand on.

Kyle has nothing, his record was a direct reflection of their defense, no 130 qb ratings. He is inaccurate, slow, and a product of a shotgun college offense. They should just play the string in preseason, and the best man wins. But one more thing.....What's Kyle's playoff record?????

you are right chuck, i am very bias against rex grossman. personally every time he steps on the field i want to pull my hair out. rex didn't have a great game against the saints. the defense had a monster game in the turnover department and it was thomas jones who carried the team that day. grossman did have that one bomb to berrian but it was a poor throw that anybody could have picked off. the saints had awful corners that year and berrian had more to do with catching that ball than grossman's ability to throw it.

as for defensive rankings
chargers were 14th, chiefs were 13th and dallas was 9th
vikings were 20th, green bay 11th and the saints were 26th
so if you were it average that grossman played against a 12th rank defense and orton played against 19th.
so grossman has it there. i can't argue with that

but seriously in the saints game it was all thomas jones and his 3 touchdowns. do you remember that one drive were he ran the ball every time? 8 carries 69 yards 1 touchdown. grossman only threw for 144 yards that game and 32 of them came from the berrian td, which was more about berrian than grossmans bad throw.

grossman has won the bears a few games, the playoff game against seattle in 06 and the oakland game last year. i refuse to count the week 3 06 game against the vikings because it was his pick 6 that put the bears in that situation and it was the defense who bailed him out with a turnover near the viking red zone.

rex has had 5 really good games and nobody can take that away from him and he's even been instrumental in winning a few but the risk isn't worth the reward. kyle orton hasn't won any playoff games, the big goose egg, but he doesn't lose games like rex. rex grossman's myriad of pick 6s and fumbles have cost the bears dearly, the super bowl maybe. i know orton isn't as proven as rex and the offense might drive like a yugo under him but he isn't going to make so making stupid mistakes.

if orton can't legitimately beat grossman in training camp than he shouldn't be in the nfl and i guess we'll all have to live with rex

"What's Kyle's playoff record?????" - Chuck

Chuck, you must be joking. 2005 was Kyle's rookie year. There's only been 2 full seasons after that in which Kyle played three whole games. He wasn't ready, or supposed to play in 2005. The year after that he wasn't used b/c Rex stayed healthy. Please, purchase a brain and then come back.

ohh i forgot
grossman played at s.d., at k.c., home
orton played at min. and two home games

a slight edge in orton's favor. it doesn't change the fact that grossman's mental errors are too costly. grossman did have a healthy bears defense, for the most part and orton didn't. the second half meltdown against the cowboys way due to all the injuries. the game was 3-3 at the half. the only bears td in that game came via a 1 yard benson td run. grossman was inept the entire game and sealed the coffin shut on the bears with a costly pick 6 in the fourth quater, it was 20-10 up until that point. the problem is that sort of thing isn't an aberration with rex it's the norm.

Hmmm Mike. Kyle as we all know has never had a chance to play a playoff game. Devolpement. Herd of it. You said it yourself Mike, he wasnt ready his rookie year but somehow compiled the 2 best rookie QB record in nearly 20 years. Kyle somehow olny threw 13 INTs his rookie year. Mike Kyle when drafted was a project. Thats why he was drafted in the 4th round NOT 1st like you are making out to be. Come on now some have great sucess in their first year at QB some dont. I would say Kyles rookie year was promising. Hey Mike he has yet to miss a game also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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This page contains a single entry by Brad Biggs published on May 11, 2008 8:21 AM.

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