Chicago Sun-Times

Don't look for WR help after June 1

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Wrapping it up before the weekend ...

Read through a few e-mails wondering about the Bears’ chances of finding wide receiver help in light of Mark Bradley’s shaky situation after he underwent arthroscopic surgery on his right knee earlier this month. It was suggested that perhaps the Bears could find some help in the form of some post-June 1 cuts.

The post-June 1 cuts that used to come from teams seeking some salary-cap relief are obsolete, and really it’s been just a rumor not a reality that you could find help there the past couple years. Clubs had done a better job of managing their finances and a lot of the burdensome salaries were unloaded in March before hefty roster bonuses were due.

Fact is, the post-June 1 cuts have already been made. The CBA allowed teams this year to rleease two players prior to June 1 and designate them as post-June 1 cuts. It’s what the Washington Redskins did with wide receiver Brandon Lloyd, who the Bears signed in early March.

The change helped both sides. The team was still able to spread a cap hit out over two seasons, and the player got to look for work earlier and find a home in early spring to get acclimated with a new team instead of seeking a job at a time when most rosters are set.

So, the short of it is that the Bears already have some post-June 1 help with them at receiver. His name is Lloyd. The days of secondary free-agent shopping in June are over.

*** Devin Hester was back at work Thursday. The receiver/returner didn’t participate in the OTA on Wednesday when media attended, but here you can find Hester in action from Thursday’s OTA. Also, look in these snapshots from the camera of Larry Mayer and find more evidence of John Tait working at right tackle.

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Thanks for the update, looks like Hass and Rideau will get long looks as well in camp at receiver, I almost forgot about Rideau but he almost made the team last year till he tore up his ankle, he might be a sleeper. Brad on another note if the June 1st cutdowns are done, what do you think is going on with Chris Simms in Tampa he does not seem to be in their plans now, I had been hoping he'd get cut and we could pick him up off the wire for a look see at the QB position.

Brad, since the teams are able to hold onto less players this year than last (due to NFL Europe demise) don't you think that there may be a few more wideouts as well as other positions from which to choose after June 1st?

As an example a team like the Raiders has four running backs McFadden, Michael Bush, Justin Fargas and Lamont Jordan. All four of these running backs are sitting on huge contracts, they won't keep them all, it is just too expensive. So Jordan is most likely to get cut, the Bears could utilize another running back as well quality wideout.

I still think the Bears need a good NFL proven running back and a wide receiver, particularly if Bradley cannot come out at the bell.

Don't you think there will be some quality talent available in the next month, due to team's cutting some quality players?

Mr. B, your thoughts?

It`s time to cut ties with Mark Bradley, he is just to injury prone, and will never take the beating that a 16 game season brings. I would like to see the Bears bring in Jerry Rice as a consultant to the recievers coach, and really work with these young recievers that we already have, and maybe we won`t have to worry if Bradley can`t play......again.

can we get some rex updates

People are making too much of bradleys procedure! He had some scar tissue removed,alot of players have this minor procedure done.He will be back by training camp.Remember he already knows the offense,so he will be fine.There is some potential at receiver for us.But I am most concerned about the O-line,and how they are going to play this year.Remember it all starts or ends up front! If the O-line can hold up & hold its own,we will be competitive on offense.our defense & special teams obviously will be our strength.If our defense stays healthy,we wont need many points to win games. GOD BLESS! GO BEARS!!!

I wanted and wished the best for Lloyd. He's not an answer at WR. To compete at this level the athlete must have the desire to play. He simply does not. His first love is as a "musician/artist". (Maybe he can remix the Super Bowl Shuffle but not on the field.)

I keep hearing all the negativity on the Bears receiver situation, but believe it or not there is hope for optimism. Think about it, Marty Booker is younger than Moose, that alone is an upgrade. Also, Im sure Booker will be more reliable as far as getting open with his younger legs. Mark Bradley's knee procedure with the scar tissue is not as big of a deal as it seems, its just when you hear Mark Bradley and knee surgery in the same sentence, you look twice. Im sure he will be fine, and another upgrade. I believe Bradley is a better all around receiver than Berrian was. As far as Brandon Lloyd, there have been a couple hall of fame type receivers [Im not saying Lloyd is a hall of famer type yet] that have similar beginnings to their career's that compare to Lloyd's. Like I said, don't get me wrong, Im not saying this comparison guarantees Lloyd to come on like these gentlemen, Im just saying it gives us Bears fans some hope for optimism. Take Tim Brown, his first 5 seasons have similarities to Lloyd. Brown went like this, 1988 43 catches 725yds 5tds, 1989 1 catch 8yds otds, 1990 18 catches 265yds 3tds, 1991 36 catches 554yds 5tds, and 1992 49 catches 693yds 7tds. Lloyd went, 2003 14 catches 212yds 2tds, 2004 43 catches 565yds 6tds, 2005 48 catches 733yds and 5tds, 2006 23 catches 365yds 0tds, and 2007 2 catches 14yds and otds. Brown first five seasons, 147 catches 2245yds for a 15.3 avg and 20tds to Lloyd's 130 catches 1889yds for a 14.5 avg and 13tds. As you can see there is a comparison between Brown and Lloyd. One more that compares is Chris Carter, his first couple weren't big time either. Carter unlike Brown and Lloyd came on in his 5th season with 72catches for 962yds and 5tds, but his first four were similar to Lloyd and also like Lloyd, a young Carter was a sideline distraction, then in year 5 Carter found maturity, hopefully Lloyd will with the Bears this season. Carter went 116 catches 1863yds for 22tds in his first four. So you see, you just never know with some of these receivers, sometimes it takes a few seasons for the light to come on, hopefully Lloyd's is starting to get bright GO BEARS!!

Getting hurt without really doing much is very concerning. What exactly has this guy done? Not much, and failed to crack the 5th WR position last year. He's always been hurt and always will be. I expect Hester, Lloyd, and Booker to man the first 3 spots. Davis, Bennett, and Monk will fill out the WR position.

im really interested in seeing how this recieving corp is gonna do. i think they have alot of raw talent. even though booker has some mileage on him i still think he has some really good years left. i dont know alot about lloyd, im just hoping he isnt a distraction to the bears. im really hoping bradley can overcome his inuries and last the season for us, i think he could be a bad ass reciever for us. the guy i really want to see alot of is mike hass. this guy never drops the ball and we need someone like that!!! i just dont see him making it, there are to many WR's out there for him to make it, which is a shame! if it was me i would dump Lloyd and keep hass.

prophet you can't teach speed so Bradley will probably get every opportunity to make it. I wish the Bears hadn't gotten Lloyd to muddy the water Rideau and Haas have paid their dues on the practice squad and worked hard Lloyd has a clouded past as far as his work ethics. I would rather had seen the two get a chance than to see Lloyd. There are only so many reps availible and so many balls to throw I hope this does not backfire and we keep the wrong one for the wrong reasons.

Armstead, I want to know how you think Bradley is a better all around reciever than Bernard Berrian. Berrian beat out Bradley and kept him on the sidelines, regardless of the fact that Bradley kept getting hurt. I know that he looked very promising in his rookie season, but that was almost three years ago now and he hasn't done anything since, while Bernard has blossomed into a legit deep threat. I hope your right, and believe that Bradley can be successful but making that statement at this point is VERY optimistic.

last year our O-line made our receivers obsolete but we do have some players like hass and riddeu, but i'd really like to see them go out and get chad johnson and see him hook up with grossman for 3 or 4 touchdowns a game. this would get us a superbowl

last uears reciveing corps stunk. i thought the bears should have benched them instead of grossman. maybe this years recivers can catch who ever they are.

could we please, please, PLEASE put a moratorium on requests for the Bears to sign Chris "The Spleenless Wonder" Simms? He's a tough guy and all, but do we really need a quarterback whose primary ability seems to be taking a hit? Simms is a younger version of Brian Griese.

what say the Bears sign someone who has actually done something in the NFL (*cough*Daunte Culpepper*cough*) for the number 3 spot? Hell, I'd take Byron Leftwich or the rights to Jake Plummer over Chris Simms.

The only WR of any note who might be available is Joe Horn, who looks to be on the outs in Atlanta.

The Bears have a very young corps, after Booker, and who knows if Hester is ready for a large role at the position just yet? I'd rather play him as the #4 to start the year, and increase his reps as he shows progress in development.

The only question with Horn is whether or not Atlanta will try to trade him, or if they will take the cap hit and cut him. My guess is they try to deal him. If he agress to a restructured contract (my guess is he will have to in order for any team to take him), then the Bears should perhaps look into it.

After all, a proven WR is never a bad thing, and Horn still possesses a fair amount of speed -- something that never could be said for Moose, when he was on the team. Just a thought.

rob, actually back in 2005 when Bradley was a rookie and Berrian was a second year player, Bradley beat Berrian out for the starting job. Also, yes the injury came into play in holding Bradley back, if not for the knee problem Berrian probably would have never seen the field. This [ the knee injury] rob, was the #1 one reason Berrian kept Bradley out of the starting lineup. What I mean is, the knee slowed down Bradley's development and allowed Berrian to get a leg up on Bradley. Yeah, Berrian became a legit deep threat.... and thats about all. Think about it, the guy never had a 1000yds, double digit tds, or more than 80 catches. I just like Bradley better because he seems to possess the ability to take a short pass and make it into a long gain. One example, the Jets game back on Nov 19, 2006, Bradley took a short pass from Grossman and took it the distance. I like Bradley's ability to create separation vs Berrian's also. Another thing that is over looked in comparison to Bradley and Berrian is, I like Bradley's ability to hold on to the ball better than Berrian, who seemed to get a case of the drops this season. I don't remember Bradley dropping a lot of passes throughout his career. Bottom line, I feel if healthy Bradley will be a better all around receiver than Berrian the Viking GO BEARS!!

Hello Fellow Bear Fans: Enough with the request's to sign Chad Johnson already! That is all we need in the locker room.A major distraction all year,no thanks it is not worth it.We have enough story line players already.We have already taken enough chances on character guys! too much stress & headaches involved! There is some potential at Receiver for us on the roster.I am concerned about the O-line though! If we havent improved up front,our offense will sputter again this year,regardless of who plays!The guy i am anxious to see at receiver is Bennett.I have a feeling we are gonna love him here in chicago! If our defense stays relatively healthy this year.Our offense wont have to score much for us to win.Our special teams should be tops again! The offense doesnt have to be great,they just need to hold their own.GOD BLESS! GO BEAR'S!!

I'm with Daryl M. Keep in mind Chris Simms in College could never beat out Major Applewhite and yet Applewhite is long gone and Simms keeps hanging around on his last name alone. Simms sucks. He's never been consistent and his slow recognition would not work well with a struggling offensive line. I just do not get the love for this guy.

Cris Simms I couldnt even imagine him as a Bear. Besides the O-Line the Bears relie on drafting and devolping their own. Cris Simms isnt a fix. He would just cause more of a QB deboggle. Dont need that!

I would like to see Leftwich given a shot because it seems the Bears cannot develop their own all they did is cause a circus. When Orton was managing a 10 win season instead of staying the course and developing Orton they put Wrecks in that was a slapp in the face. They have not developed their own since Tomczak and McMahon, no wait they started on Harbaugh but he went somewhere else BM (before Manning), to develop. Now we have two more rookies both have potential. I saw Hill in the D2 play-offs and Hanie on those insomnia nights sometimes watching would keep me awake both are strong and nimble in the pocket let's hope they do the right thing this time, by the way who the he77 is Pep Hamilton? and who has he developed? Oh yeah Rex Grossman NUFF SAID!!!

I'd love us to pick up Daunte!
Carter? Isn't he the one that everyone said Buddy Ryan messed up then years later Chris said it was his fault cause he was drinkin too much and bein a a!@#.
Then when Buddy dropped him he saw the light and came on with the Vikes. Is he the same one I'm thinking of??

Dude, did you ever actually see Bradly? The man can play some ball, injury free he is by far the best WR the Bears have had in awhile. I mean he is the reason the Bears didn't go after Berrian harder they saw Bradley might play this year. no comparison to the 2 Bradley by a length

Thanks for the update Brad

There is a rumor floating around,saying the bears have been talking with the agent for Q.B Ryan Leaf (remember that LOSER!) apparently he says he has been practicing hard the last few years.he says he is in great shape,& finally ready to dominate the N.F.L. This is very scary,I hope it is not true!Talk about a joke of a Bust Q.B.The bears are considering taking a chance,cause they can get him cheap! They figure it is worth investing a yr or two to see if they can develop him.Apparently Pep Hamilton has worked with him in the past,& is highly endorsing getting him signed! Pep believes he can develop him & is pushing hard to get him signed.Apparently Lovie Smith is against it,but Angelo & Pep are high on him right now! Angelo believes Ryan Leaf,never had a chance to prove himself! This is horrible news & it better not happen or we will be doomed for years at Q.B. Supposedly that is why they didnt draft a Q.B. because of talks with Leaf! GOD HELP US!! GO BEAR'S!!!

Ryan Leaf's career stats:

25 games played
48.4 completion %
3,666 yards
5.6 yards per pass
146.6 yards a game
14 TDs
36 INTs
50.0 QB rating

Hes 32 years old and the Cowboys couldnt even take 4 games with him at the helm in 2001.

Have yet to hear this but if it is true maybe the guy can be a players coach. There has been players in the past that cant play but they sure can coach. I.E. Dick Jauron when he played 6 years for the Lions. Good coach not a very good saftey.

upon further investagating I had found out a little more about Leaf.

Wow,Brando: those are some seriously bad stats! I knew Leaf was bad but i didnt know he was that bad!Can you imagine Ryan Leaf as our Franchise Quarterback! "GOD HELP US".ANGELO HAS TO BE OUT OF HIS MIND,EVEN THINKING,LET ALONE BEING SERIOUS ABOUT SIGNING RYAN LEAF!This guy is destined for failure,we dont need him here! What kind of comment is it he made "I am ready to Dominate in the N.F.L" Are you kidding me! He has proven nothing except his ability to be a Loser! Yet he says he is ready to dominate,what a joke! Hopefully Angelo wont sign him,like they are thinking about!! GOD HELP US! GO BEARS!!!

I didnt need to elabrate when I put his stats up. The stats speaks for Ryan Leaf. He did stink!

De ja vu didn't we just shoot that (Ryan Leaf) rumor down on the Ced subject. If Bradley can stay healthy he could be that #1 defenses have to plan for. I hope one of the UFA QB's are the goods I am tired of this Grossman experiment I don't get it he is 6' barely he has small hands no real speed of pocket presence if you notice he always goes in reverse no field awareness how does that translate into a franchise QB. JERRY WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? why won't you admit your mistake and move on? why do you keep shoving him down our throats? JERRY IT'S TIME TO MOVE ON!!! Give us a break.

Hello Bear Fans: Missed some of your posts due to the Holiday, but was intrigued to see how much venom is out here regarding my posts on taking a look at Chris Simms if he is available. First of all, I am on the record as saying I believe Orton is our guy, and is developing into a NFL QB, we need to help his development by surrounding him with playmakers. As for Simms, my point is he is young talented, and has earned a starting QB job under a well-recognized QB coach in Jon Gruden, something we in Chicago can not boast about when it comes to developing QB's. I am not a stat guy but for those of you who are here is Simms career stat's, maybe this will open your eyes as to why Tampa's some what reluctant to let him go....
Year Team G Comp Att Pct. Yds Y/G Y/A 300 Yd TD Int Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD 100 Yd Lost

2004 TB 5 42 73 57.5 467 93.4 6.4 0 1 3 7 14 2.8 2.0 0 0 2

2005 TB 11 191 313 61.0 2035 185.0 6.5 0 10 7 19 31 2.8 1.6 0 0 4

2006 TB 3 58 106 54.7 585 195.0 5.5 1 1 7 4 7 2.3 1.8 1 0 0

Bottom line TD's 12, INT's 17, Avg. yds' per game 157.8

As for the FA's I am willing to see what they can do, but most of you out here dogging my post, also point out the BEARS can't develop QB's, so why should any of you believe they will be able to accomplish this with two FA's QB....sometimes I wonder how many of you remember what you say from post to post, I am only concerned about putting a winning product on the field, if Simms is availble let's take a look. You bring in Culpeper or Leftwich, you are bringing in a starter, not someone to develop, I don't see too many posters who really want to see either of them starting for the Bears.....

chitownbear are you trying to run a DOS program. those numbers are all over the place. Sence I can be kind at times I will post Chris Simms career stats.

6 ft 4 in 220 lbs and was born Aug 29, 1980 making him 28 before the season starts.

19 games played

3,087 yards

59.1 completion %

6.3 yards per pass

162.5 yards a game

12 TDs an 17 INTs

71.2 QB rating

9 fumbles lost 6

Now For Kyle Ortons career stats.

18 games played

2,347 yards

52.0 compleation %

130.4 yards a game

5.2 yard per pass

62.2 QB rating

12 TDs 15 INTs

Kyle is 6 ft 4 in 217 lbs born Nov. 14 1982. He will turn 26 in the middle of the season.

Now Rex Grossmans career stats.

32 games played

5,907 yards

54.3 comp %

186.4 yards a game

6.6 yards per pass

70.9 QB rating

31 TDs and 33 INTs

18 fumbles and 10 lost

Rex was born Aug 23 1980. 6ft 217 lbs. he will be 28 before the season starts

Kyle Orton has 14 fumbles with 5 of those lost fumbles.

Thanks for the stat update on the QB's. Now I still think Orton's our guy, but the key to all this will be can he be steady, make good decisions, and limit turnovers, especially in the Red zone. What this proves though is how difficult it is in the NFL to develop young QB's for all teams not just the Bears which we see in the National media all the time, guys have to find a system that fits them to be successful. I'm sure there are examples of teams that developed QB's coming from other blog members, but we can also show the opposite. I think the Bears have developed Kyle, now is time to see the fruits of their labor.

Brando, thanks for the stats.

It appears that Rex is still a little ahead of Orton in regards production and rating. I believe he should be the guy starting for the Bears but if it is Orton he has my total support.

As for Fumbles and fumbles lost what is Rex's numbers?

With that question it sparked me to beleive that this fumbling has to do with more then just Rex and his small hands.

Kyle Orton: 14 fumbles 5 lost

Rex Grossman: 18 fumbles and 10 lost Dahillama

Brian Griese: 7 fumbles in 13 games played 2 lost

Craig Krenzel: 2 fumbles 2 lost in 6 games

Chad Huchinson: 8 fumbles 2 lost in 5 games

Jonathan Quinn: 0 fumbles in 5 games 98 att.

Kordell Stewart: 7 fumbles 3 lost in 9 games

Happy Hank Burris: Started 1 game 1 fumble 1 lost

Chris Chandler: 7 fumbles 3 lost 17 games: career has 85 fumbles

Jim Miller: 18 fumbles 6 lost in 31 games

Cade McClown: 14 fumbles 6 lost. Interceped 1 Girlfriend from Tim Couch to only fumble her right back into Tim's hands. Making it 15 fumbles and 7 lost.

Shane Matthews: 13 fumbles 5 lost in 18 games.

All 12 Quarterbacks have play for the Bears with Olin Kruetz under center. Now the fumbles stats do no show how many were caused by center exchange. As we all know center exchange in the past has been a problem.

Thats 109 fumbles since 1999-2007. WOW that is one high number.
45 lost fumbles. thats a high % of fumbles lost just by QBs.

Kruetz being one of the Bears best centers in history he has to solve the problem with center exchange. Last year he look good in the shotgun. Hopefully Turner can find ways to utalize the shotgun formation just a bit more in 08.


Thanks again, interesting stats.

Based on these stats. T Rex man should be the man in 2008.

Figures don't lie but liers figure.

Here are the numbers.

Rex is averaging .563% fumbles per game with a .313% fumbles lost per game.

Orton is averaging .777% fumbles per game with a .277% fumbles lost per game.

Translation for a 19 game season (Includes the Bears Hypothetical SuperBowl win for both quarterbacks).

Rex will have 19 games x .563% = 10.7 fumbles during the year
Rex will have 19 games x .313% = 3.35 fumbles lost.

Orton will have 19 games x .777% = 14.76 fumbles during the year
Orton will have 19 games x .277% = 4.09 fumbles lost.

Based on the numbers Orton will have 4 more fumbles than Rex and close to 1 more lost fumble.

Go figure.


Here are the Touchdowns per game vs interceptions per game for Rex and Kyle.

Rex touchdowns per game = .969% and interceptions = 1.031%

Kyle touchdowns per game = .667% and interceptions =.833%

Over a 19 games Superbowl season.

Rex has 19 games x.969% = 18.41 TD's
Rex has 19 games x .1.031% = 19.59 INterceptions.

Kyle has 19 games x .667% = 12.67 TD's
Kyle has 19 games x .833% = 15.83 INterceptions.

Rex doesn't look so good because Rex has more than 4 more interceptions than Kyle. And the question is? How many points would be scored off of the additional interceptions.

Rex also has almost 6 more TD's than Kyle. But those interceptions can break a teams back if the other team scores or the interception was thrown in the red zone taking away points that should have been automatic.

Bad Rex should start if he controls the interceptions if not Kyle should start. Simple as that.

Man dahlillama you one uped me on this numbers battle:) I love it.
I thoroughly enjoyed your numbers.Way to break it down. I only have 50 minutes before I have to go to work, so Im going to return with some more numbers for all of us fans to enjoy in the morning.

Jim miller on Late Hits just gave his opinion that Kyle Orton is winning the QB race. Sirius radio.

Well its not his opinion that counts but Its refeshing to hear from a former Bears QB.

The numbers I posted went to the most recent post by Biggs

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