Chicago Sun-Times

Bears bag five more draft picks

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You knew the signing of fifth-round pick Kellen Davis earlier today was going to jump-start business for Cliff Stein.

Boy, did it.

The Bears also came to agreement with all five of the club’s seventh-round picks on contracts Friday night.

Defensive end Ervin Baldwin, guard Chester Adams, linebacker Joey LaRocque, offensive tackle Kirk Barton and wide receiver Marcus Monk all agreed to four-year deals.

That gives the Bears six of their 12 draft picks under contract.

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Let's hope Monk can stay healthy and be a potential red-zone threat. It would also be nice if either Barton or Adams panned out by making the team.

Most intreaging of that group is Monk. Saints got lucky with Marques Colston, maybe in time, the Bears get lucky with Marcus Monk.

Chester Adams adds depth to the roster.

Not sure if the other 3 make it on the 53 man roster???

Wow. Great job, Stein.

He is a machine! Glad to see that even with the labor uncertainty, he is still able to get well ahead of the other teams, and get these young players into camp early so they can participate in the OTAs with the veterans.

Let's hope we find one or two out of this first group to sign that will contribute. If I had to lay odds, I think Davis is a given, but Monk and LaRocque will be the guys to stick on the active roster, LaRocque getting it done on special teams.

Barton and Adams will probably be practice squad guys if they make it, and Baldwin will have to beat out a second rounder from last year to make the roster in Bazuin, so I would say his chances are slim.

I like the Kirk Barton pick. I realize Barton might not make the final 53 man roster, but thats just fine. I say see what Barton has got in the pre-season, then place him on the practice squad and develope him for a season or two, maybe as John Tait's eventual replacement at right tackle? Barton was the real deal as a run blocker at Ohio st. Scouting reports say Barton has good strength at the point, and able to seal the edge. Also, has a solid punch to rock a defender back. I just think any four year starter in the Big Ten should be considered a solid pro prospect anyways. Lindy's draft guide say's Barton is a dependable, strong-willed lineman who will be there every play of every game. The sporting news draft guide also says that Barton gives great effort. These are some attributes that would be good on the Bears offensive line GO BEARS!!

I think the '08 Bears have good potential with a lot of prospects that have good upside. The Vikings are the toughest division competition if AP stays healthy; if not the Bears can win the Norris .

Norris? The bears can win chuck norris? Are you trying to say the north? REM

I hope the offensive linemen make the team I am looking forward to the july camp and pre-season you will be surprized with Big Cheese and Barton. The guide calls Barton a physical specimen. It would be interesting if the majority of the choices stick. The QB's are really going to be tough there are only so many reps to give (watch the lefty). GO BEARSSSSS.....

The Sun Times made for some interesting reading today, and also answered some questions about the Bears that I've been wondering about. I've been wondering about what the Bears plans are with Josh Beekman? According to the Sun Times today, Beekman is Olin Kreutz's reserve, and Anthony Oakley is running with the second team at left guard. I would have liked to see Beekman get into the starting lineup at guard, because I would like to see the Bears get younger at the position, I guess it won't be with Beekman, at least the Bears got an eventual replacement for Olin Kreutz in a couple seasons. I like Metcalf, I just got questions about his durability? Hopefully he will stay healthy, and take over the position at left guard. Back in 2005 when Metcalf was a starter, he wasn't bad, but eventually lost the starting job because of not being able to stay healthy. Since its not going to be Beekman, Im pulling for Metcalf for two reasons, 1. I want to see the Bears get younger at the position, so they can get a group of linemen that can be together for awhile. 2. I would personally like to see some of the Bears draft picks make it on the o-line, Metcalf was a third rounder in 02, only a seven year player, just stay healthy, and I think Metcalf can do the job.

As far as the QB derby, the Sun Times had an interesting take on this also. I would like to see Orton get the nod. According to the Sun Times, not me, [I know a lot of Grossman backers are gonna be in an uproar about this one], but the Sun Times feels that Orton will eventually get the job. The Sun Times had some interesting reasons to why they feel Orton will get the nod in the end. I also agree with what they said. The Sun Times feels that the Bears want to win with their defense, running game, and special teams. They feel with Grossman in the lineup, the Bears become way to pass happy, and are prone to turnovers, and this gets the Bears out of their game plan about the winning with defense and the running game. I think they are right. For one, Orton led the Bears on their only two game winning streak for this very reason late last season. Also, like it or not, the Bears are not a passing team, and are not built as so. The Bears are a running first, keep the opposition of the field, and make just enough big plays with their offense to win type team. I think with Orton the Bears have a better opportunity to be this type of team. Also, late last season, Orton did demonstrate the ability to do this. Especially in the Saints game, when the big play was there, Orton took it, and looked good doing so. If the big play was not there, Orton would check down. When Grossman came back in for his second stint, he also showed the ability to do this, I just think he looked a little out of place last season trying to be this type of QB, but maybe I'm wrong? Its all about being a game manager, being safe with the ball, and takeing the big play when it presents itself, I feel Orton fits the mold best for this type of QB. Oh well, its early, may the best QB win GO BEARS!!

Kevin Armstead
I want to argue about who will be the starter, but your points are really much as I don't want it, it does feel like the Bears want Orton to be the starter
BUT i will say that it is stupid because you can't always win with a running game and defense especially after a season in which there was almost NO running game and the defense collapsed one too many times
I want Rex to be the QB over Orton because I want to have a QB who COULD win the game and I know the Bears havn't been a passing team, but I think its time that they change that a little bit

You make it sound like Orton came from a wishbone offense in college, and isn't capable of slinging it around on the football field. I can assure you that Joe Tiller's offense was a heck of a lot more pro-style than anything Grossman ever saw at Florida under Spurrier and Zook. Orton is capable (over 9,000 passing yards on a pretty poor Purdue team, with 63 TDs). Only 2.01% of his passes were picked off. 31 TDs, 5 INTs his senior season.

This is a kid who can sling the ball with any QB in this division, and can certainly keep up with Grossman when it comes to taking his shots. And as far as arm strength, maybe you saw the Packer game when the wind was making it impossible to get throws on the money, and Orton hit Muhammed in the chest so hard that he couldn't even get his hands up before it was off his pads and un-catchable. He can make any throw on the field, and make it reasonably well. When he played as a rookie, they ran a bunch of fade routes, and told Orton to throw to the sideline, so he would be less at risk of INTs. This kid is at his best throwing posts, deep ins, and deep crossing routes. If he wins the job, this offense has a chance to be much more dangerous than if Grossman wins the job. Grossman does not read the field, and doesn't do well on his progressions. Orton can do both.

"I want Rex to be the QB over Orton because I want to have a QB who COULD win the game."

I'm not sure I understand this correctly Sahrish. If you want a QB who can win the game when all else fails, you may want to give Brian Griese a call. How many games has Rex had comeback wins in? Oakland, Minnesota(2006)...maybe Denver, but most credit should go to Devin Hester for that win. Peanut too. I think he's lost more games for the team when "Bad Rex" syndrome takes over then comeback wins. I don't know about him being the savior of games. Besides, have you actually seen enough of Orton to judge what he can and cannot do?

Sahrish, the fact that the Bears want to be a run first, and defensive team is not stupid, its just Bear football. What ultimately killed the Bears last season was all the injuries on the defense. So I think this is why the defense collapsed so much like you were saying. This is also the main reason there was no running game, because the Bears would be behind and would be forced to throw more than they wanted to, and it would seem like the running game was nonexistent. With a return to health on the defense, the Bears can get back to playing their brand of football. The key will be the safety play, the addition of a true nose tackle, and Tillman and Vasher staying in the lineup. At free safety if Mike Brown can stay healthy, this defense will take a step up. At strong safety, Brandon McGowan made great strides at the end of the season, and Kevin Payne hits like a train, his return will also help. If Tillman and Vasher can stay healthy, another great step, because the Bears are an entirely different team with them in the lineup. I also like the depth better this season, Corey Graham the second year corner from New Hampshire, has been running with the first team in the mini camp this spring, and was a standout special teamer last season, I also like his size at 6-1 196lbs. Also we all know what Trumaine McBride can do. As far as the true nose tackle I was talking about. If Dusty Dvoracek can stay healthy for once, he is very disruptive, and can free up the linebackers. I also like the addition of rookie 3rd rounder Marcus Harrison, the 6-3 310lb DT has the size the Bears have been missing at the position, and he also is a disruptive DT that can help free up the linebackers, and help the Bears run defense.
As far as Kyle Orton, ditto to what Joe Felicelli said. I don't know where some fans got the idea that Orton has a weak arm, but they must not have been watching the same player at the end of the season. Not only the Packer game, but the Saints game, Orton displayed his arm with the two td passes. And like I said earlier, displayed the ability to make the big play if it presented itself. I think with some more playing time Orton will be a 250-300 yd passer, and will surprise some fans. Don't judge Orton by his rookie season, he is now a different QB, and more fundamentally sound. I think he is ready for a break out season GO BEARS!!

With Orton the opposition will take away the run and underneath routes sitting on his weak arm. He is not an attack QB. Rex is and is a threat with an offensive line playing well in front of him. Stretch the field, then pound the ball. Having Orton at QB is like kissing your sister. It's just not going to go anywhere.

ahh the expected attacks lol
okay well to Joe Felicelli :
Orton did have a solid carrer in college and I know he has his ups as well, but in his starts with the Bears (which is what I am using to judge him) he has not shown to me that he can be the kind of QB I would want leading an offense
Orton doesn't make mistakes your right, but it isn't often that you see him take a risk that could win the game. also yes that Grenbay game was pretty good and it was a solid preformance from him, but Rex has also had great games and when you compare the upside of Rex to that of Orton I believe that Rex has more of an upside. remember how Rex played to start the 2006 season ....thats the kind of potential I see which is better then the QB that Orton can be.
I am not trying to say Orton sucks or that he can't do well in the NFL....I just feel like we are more conservative as an offense with him leading

and now to Mike:
I don't mean comback wins, I mean just winning the game
look at the Colts (and no im not trying to say that Rex is Manning) they have an offense and a QB that you expect to go out there and score enough points to win. I think with Rex's arm and if he learns to limit mistakes (which I think towards the end of last year he had shown he can do) we have the oppertunity to score more points then the opposing team.....even if Devin Hester doesn't return a TD or the defense allows 30 points or so.
Rex has won games and lost us games....but Orton has sorta just gone along with the motion in most games.
I just don't see how we can be better with Orton
what team would respect Orton's arm?

Kevin Armstead, I know that defense and running the ball is important to the Bears and im not saying lets forget all about that and just throw the ball 100% of the time
but I am pretty sure most Chicago Bear's fan would like to see the incorportation of a passing attack
the Bears are a good team and could be much better with the addition of a passing attack because that takes pressure of the other units
we need all of them to work together to get good football.
and I don't think fans have seen anything to have them believe that Orton does have a great arm
you see potential in Orton those stats and the breakout season hasn't happended yet has it? well I see that potential in Rex and much more
i see him as a pro-bowl calliber player
why is that one GB game so important to all Orton supporter opposed to the several good games that Rex has had? is it simply that Rex has had more bad games? well Orton hasn't really done much good or bad besides that one game

"we [will] have the oppertunity to score more points then the opposing team.....even if Devin Hester doesn't return a TD or the defense allows 30 points or so."

But I haven't seen Rex win a a game when, like you said, special teams and the defense aren't working. Again, you'd want to call Brian Griese...

Who would respect Orton's arm? I'm guessing the Saints may have some R-E-S-P-E-C-T for it. That arm grabbed the handle and literally flushed their post-season hopes away.

By the way, Saints fans think we have this rivalry going on with them. It's really cute. Can't wait 'till we play them once more. Oh yeah, in Chi-town, in da winter. Go BEARS!

Orton can make plays, he was not asked to push the football down the field because the Offensive coaches did not have confidence in him, in the audition last season Orton showed he could make some of the same throws they would allow Rex to call. The key for Orton is to understand he does not have to make every play a highlight play, move the chains, get first downs, protect the football, put points on the board in the Redzone, if he does this the team will be successful...The issue with Rex was that he felt he had to make the spectacular throw, and with his arm he could, what Rex could not do was keep his play at an efficient level, this causes the turnovers and the good Rex bad Rex scenarios, we need to get past that and just play winning football. I believe Orton gives us a chance to do just that, and remember what happened in St. Louis when they took Warner out and replaced him with Bulger, the one area that team does not have problems at is at QB....Go BEARS...playoffs first then anything can happen !

"But I haven't seen Rex win a a game when, like you said, special teams and the defense aren't working. Again, you'd want to call Brian Griese..."

no your right, but has Orton done that? no
but who has more potential to do that ....Rex
and why is it that games we win while Orton is playing he won us those games, but games in which Rex wins it was the defense and now him who won the games?
& that packers game our D only allowed 7 points and the Saints game we allowed 25
we SHOULD win those games with the focus we put on defense.
the defense and O line were both getting it back together towards the end of the season (hopefully that carries into this season) and that helped Orton a lot

but please do explain to me why Orton's wins count but Rex's don't?
and since wins are what matter the most with Griese as our starter we won two games
the Packers game we won 27-20
and the Eagles game 19-16
why do you keep bringing him up anyway? hadn't putting him in proved that we can't do one thing with him that we could with Rex and Orton

I think most people see the potential of Rex when we look at upside, but how likely is he to reach that upside? More often that not, we get the floor of his ability, not the ceiling. When he makes that first mistake of the game, he presses and tries to get it all back in one play, and continues to make mistakes. It is like throwing gasoline on a fire. When Orton makes a mistake, he seems to learn from it, and make the smart decision, not the gunslinger decision.

I have no doubt that with a better psychological makeup, Rex Grossman could be a dynamic quarterback in the NFL. But based on what we have seen (let us not forget, as he said, he is coming in to his 6th season in the pros), he should be a lot better by now. There is no learning curve any more, and Rex should be able to read a defense after 6 years. He does not appear to be able to move on from his first option consistently, and he still stares down his receivers on every pass play. It is not a matter of playing a more conservative game with Orton in there at QB instead of Rex. It is about sustaining drives, getting first downs, and in some cases throwing the ball into the stands because nothing is there. Rex trusts his arm and his head way too much for how poorly both have served him. The defenses in our division are set up to prevent the long ball in Detroit and Minnesota. Green Bay has a good pass rush and solid cover corners. We also play Tampa, Indianapolis, St. Louis, and Philly, all teams who pride themselves on not giving up the big play. How well is the gunslinger going to fare against that? We need to play it safe, run the ball, work the tight ends, and take our shots when they are there, not whenever we feel like it. Rexc has a job to do. He is supposed to win games. Sometimes that means making the right decision to not lose a game, and that is where he doesn't show consistency.

Rex has physical talent, no question. What he lacks is his distance from the ground, and the substance between his ears. He is not a young QB, and people need to stop offering to give him time to develop. He is now entering his 6th year in the NFL, and he has yet to show any level of consistency. Most players do not get this long to show their mettle, and he should be thanking his lucky stars that he still collects a paycheck from anyone, let alone the chance to compete for a job.

It should tell you something that Grossman is working with Hanie and Hill on basic tells you he still is lazy in his mechanics, and has major holes in his fundamentals. And this is the guy you want to lead the team? The only QB to have success in the NFL in the last 15 years with poor mechanics was Brett Favre, and his mechanics were fantastic when he could set his feet and throw, but he also understood his offense well enough to improvise. Rex does not have that ability, as much as he would like to believe he does. You cannot accomplish the improv until you know the basic routines.

So while Rex has all the physical ability to be a solid quarterback, I do not want another year of his agonizingly pedestrian intellectual skills in charge of our offense. Enough of looking like a Spurrier QB. I want a QB who can look like he belongs behind center. On our roster, Kyle Orton is the closest we have.

Is it ideal? Not a chance...But it is a start. We can't win games if we can't trust the guy handling the ball. How many fumbled exchanges did Rex have last year? Orton had no reps with the first team all season long, and managed to get that right when he started. In the season opener, he had a rusher that was his responsibility in the protection scheme coming free on his front side, and didn't even see him until his helmet was buried in his chest. How is that for field vision? I would rather have someone who can move his head off his primary receiver to see something coming, and can check down to Clark, Olson, Benson, Forte, or McKie, so we can come back for another down.

With equal time in practice, camp, and preseason, Orton will show everyone what he is capable of. My belief is that he will show himself to be far superior as an option than Rex, and will win the job.

Sahrish, I bring up Griese b/c he's the guy that actually won a few games on his arm alone when everything else wasn't working. He has three wins to his credit since he became the starter (started Oakland). He also tied Minnesota and AP down to the last sec until the STs fudged up. Grossman has two wins as well, but out of eight starts.

I haven't seen that kind of play from Orton or Rex (Ok,he made some nice plays in Denver), but when I saw Orton play those last few games I was incredibly impressed by his ability to step up in the pocket and avoid the rush. He can make the throws that need to be made and he doesn't make too many mistakes.

Whatever, this conversation could go on until September, and beyond. We all have our opinions. But I'll tell you what, Orton or Rex, I'll support whoever's under center come September.

Sahrish look at the full circle when talking about upside. Try looking on the down side also. I beleive that Rex has more down sides then Orton. Rex has always had a full playbook to work with. He was able to freely call audibles. The thing is the coaches, besides one game, has yet to unleash Kyle. Im not going to call out any player on the team that I so despritly want to see start the season, as for I am a team fan. With any player starting I wish them the best.

Also all the better that teams DONT respect Kyle's arm. He will gun it and make them pay.

Sahrish, I see what you're saying. The BEARS are shining fans into believing that they are actually comparing Orton and Rex equally. This is a team that relies heavily on their top picks manning starting positions. I also believe that Rex's potential will overshadow what they feel they will get with Orton. When teams dumb down plays it's to work to a guy's strengths. They don't believe that Orton has strengths over Rex. They dumb down for both of them but who gets to throw deep? If they didn't believe in Rex they would've kept Griese who still had a few years on his contract and let Rex go to his suitors in the off season. Even though he had none, they were still happy that he didn't get any. They got their man. If they felt that Orton was head and shoulders better than Rex they would have given him the ball straight out. A coin toss to decide who goes first? It's like saying to leave them out of it and let them prove for theirself. I just get the feeling that they have more faith in Rex. He has a fire lit under him that he's never had before. The guy is staying after practice and working on things he should've worked on over the years. He's working with the two rookies who will remain an after thought long after the season has started. With him doing all those things he's trying to improve and that's what they've never seen him do. Handing him the position and not coaching him has been the main thing that's held him back. He's now receptive to coaching and wants to learn and that's what's going to get him over the hump. If Benson is still considered a starter after his offseason and his questionable health what does that say about the braintrust?

Sharish I have no idea what you have been watching or for that matter who but Grossman has proved he is not a professional quarterback by consistantly making unprofessional plays and decisions. Angelo spent a first round choice on Grossman and he will not back off that until he has totally exhausted all avenues, Greise got on the bad side of the coaches after Philly and he passed for a lot of yards also some very critical mistakes. Orton was 10-5 until being removed just before the play-offs which was ludicris they retarded Orton's growth and probably Grossman's also with that decision. Orton should have been allowed to finish Grossman should have waited and the contest we are having now should have been done then and the offense and the team would have been farther advanced one way or the other because someone would be a obvious starter the other would be gone or #2. This whole debacle is the Bears making and could have and should have been fixed by now.

Guys some of you touched on one huge point between Rex & Orton, but no one come out and stated it. Look at the wins that Orton had (or defense played top five style ball). We had a +3 or 4 turn over ratio during those times, with MB making two game winning INTs for TDs. That makes a HUGE differance when you compare the two. Yes Rex has lost some games, but he has won some games on his arm. He is a much more accurate passer than Orton is, and he apperaed to learn a leason at the end of last season (why wasnt Orton starting then?). Orton was a good QB on a very good Purdue team (whoever said that team was bad is crazy), but I have yet to see it in the NFL. I thought during the Pre-Season last year he showed sparks, but that was agaisnt 3rd string players. Alas, I think we will be fine with either QB IF our receivers play ball. Thank God we don't have that bum Berrian anymore. He cost us the San Diego game last year with the INTS HE CAUSED.
Go BEars

Rex will win the starting job easly. The people that talk about rex in a negitive light have lost there minds . If you doint remember the only reason we had such a great year in 2006 was because of the 8 -0 start of the season and unless you had your head in the sand you would know the key player in the start was Rex not devin hester. if you also remember the key passes in the OT victory aganst the Seahawks (bigest Bear Win in twenty years)or the fact that eveyone picked the sants intill grossman outplayed Bress and lead us to only are second super bowl in team history. But I guess the guy is a bum who if the bears cut would be out of the league. Fool Clowns REX is a Stud Orton will always be a backup it is not even close. OPEN YOUR EYES .

On a previous post, Brando had provided career numbers for both Orton and Grossman. Here is some analysis of the two.


Thanks again, interesting stats.

Based on these stats. T Rex man should be the man in 2008.

Figures don't lie but liers figure.

Here are the numbers.

Rex is averaging .563% fumbles per game with a .313% fumbles lost per game.

Orton is averaging .777% fumbles per game with a .277% fumbles lost per game.

Translation for a 19 game season (Includes the Bears Hypothetical SuperBowl win for both quarterbacks).

Rex will have 19 games x .563% = 10.7 fumbles during the year
Rex will have 19 games x .313% = 3.35 fumbles lost.

Orton will have 19 games x .777% = 14.76 fumbles during the year
Orton will have 19 games x .277% = 4.09 fumbles lost.

Based on the numbers Orton will have 4 more fumbles than Rex and close to 1 more lost fumble.

Go figure.

Here are the Touchdowns per game vs interceptions per game for Rex and Kyle.

Rex touchdowns per game = .969% and interceptions = 1.031%

Kyle touchdowns per game = .667% and interceptions =.833%

Over a 19 games Superbowl season.

Rex has 19 games x.969% = 18.41 TD's
Rex has 19 games x .1.031% = 19.59 INterceptions.

Kyle has 19 games x .667% = 12.67 TD's
Kyle has 19 games x .833% = 15.83 INterceptions.

Rex doesn't look so good because Rex has more than 4 more interceptions than Kyle. And the question is? How many points would be scored off of the additional interceptions.

Rex also has almost 6 more TD's than Kyle. But those interceptions can break a teams back if the other team scores or the interception was thrown in the red zone taking away points that should have been automatic.

Bad Rex should start if he controls the interceptions if not Kyle should start. Simple as that.

You say "Grossman," I say "Orton," now lets talk offensive line. First off, I love the 1st round selection of Vanderbilt tackle Chris Williams. Now the Bears have a young tackle, with quick feet, that can man the left side, also this pick allows the Bears to move John Tait to right tackle, his more natural position. We all know the center spot is set with Olin Kreutz. I think a lot of fans think Kreutz's play fell off last season, I disagree. I think the bad play from the rest of his line mates is what caused Kreutz to take much of the blame for the line. Kreutz is signed through 2010, and I don't see him going anywhere any time soon. Right guard is set with Roberto Garza, who I like, but many fans do not. Left guard is up in the air right now. Terrence Metcalf is getting the first crack at the job, and I hope he makes it. I think with Metcalf the key is just staying healthy. If Metcalf does go down again, I think Josh Beekman will be next in line for the left guard spot. I know he has been working a lot at center, but I feel this is because the center position is more difficult to master, and Beekman will need a lot of reps in case Olin goes down. I see Beekman being our new swing guy at a minimum this season, this is why a lot of teams liked Beekman coming out of Boston college, because of his versatility to play guard or center. I would like to see the Bears move Beekman in at left guard [which I think they will] if Metcalf falters. Fact is, the Bears need to get young at the position, and Beekman is their best option. Yeah, St. Clair did good last season, but he is a ten year vet, who is only signed for one more season. The Bears need to get some youth in that o-line and start developing these guys, and on the field play is the only way to do so. I realize rookie Chris Williams, and second year guard Josh Beekman, will be raw at first, but it will be better for the Bears in the long run GO BEARS!!

I think that it is important that we decide once and for all if Orton has a strong arm.
I'm telling you guys that HE DOES NOT.
Rex does and everybody knows that.
When Orton plays both safeties creep up and that kills the running game.
Rex will start but if he screws up Orton will replace him.

Fan55 What type of Arm streanth are you talking about? I have Kyle's seen his deep ball. It can float a little. I have also see his striking ability with in 30 yards. Those 10-30 yard throws are a bullet of a pass. Almost looks like the ball is on a string.

Yes Grossman to has a avg at best striking ball with in 10-30 yards. One proplem though, when throwing the 20+ yard bullet of a pass, it ends up 3 feet above the head of the WR, TE or runningbacks head.
The reason I think is, that he indeed is not 6 ft 1 and is more 5 ft 11 inches. Im 5 ft 11 inches never meet Grossman but I did meet Benson and he was an eyebrow shorter then me. Rex is only a eyebrow taller then Benson. Berrian I also saw at the same sports convention, now he was a good inch or so taller then me and Benard is taller then Rex.
Rex can throw a beauty of a deep ball and a sideline pass that looks good at times. Ask him to throw to the middle of the field and Ooops there that floating to high of a pass for a WR to make a play on. Can you say pick 6. If there was such a stat for INTs throwen in the middle Im sure Grossmans INT % numbers would be the highest, when throwing in the middle of the field.

Thats alot of mumbo-jumbo but its true, is it not? Once again I will say this: Who give a rats arse about the 2-5 deep balls that are thrown in a game. Short intermediate completed passes will do more for a team, then the 15 sec scoring drive that puts the Defense back onto the field, just to wear them out before the 4th quarter.

One other thing: How many times has Grossman left is WR wide open to get smashed by a defender. There was times that Moose got lucky he wasnt killed out there because of Rex Grossman's inablility to throw the ball over the middle.

Time to buy Rex some stilts. Heck he cant run worth a crud anyways.

William R. Donald I agree with you
and yes this conversation could go on forever I don't and will not see ever how Orton has the better chance to make this team the best it can be
and Rex is practicing with the young QBs because he does realize that there are things he needs to fix and that is a good thing
I am by no means saying that he is perfect, but I would much rather take my chances on him being the QB i think we ALL know he can be rather then play it safe with Orton
and please stop saying plays are dumbed down for Orton
they were in his rookie year and now they are not
also yes Rex said he has 6 years under him, but he doesn't have too much onfield experience
and im not using that as an excuse, but it is completly unfair to compare stats of Rex and Orton
you have to look at what Orton played with that rookie year
and the fumbles in center both QBs experience so that might not be the fault of either might actually have more to do with the center

for what we have given Rex bad o-line last year, no run game and the D not standing up as it always does I can see why he didn't improve
but I know hes trying and he wants this you can tell
he has motivation and motivation can really get you places

but still we will see who wins the job and it will be fair
it always has been fair
the Bears are not stupid and they will pick the best guy

Sahrish, You should take a look at the full circle when saying that Rex had a bad O-Line and a bad running game. You can see why he didnt improve?
Why did Orton improve from his last time starting , with the same bad O-Line and a poor running game?

I can tell you why, Orton realy did IMPROVE, where as Grossman still has to prove his improvements. Aug. is 2 months away and Lovie stated that he would like to make a disition before the 4th pre season game. He also stated that he will let them battle it out and if it takes untill the first game, then thats the way it will be.

I see more in Orton as a smart playing QB. Where I see a risk/reward type in Grossman. I wish them both the best. May the best man win the infamous Bears QuarterBack possition.

They do dumb down. I'm sorry and I know people don't like to hear it but Ron Turner has no faith in either of these guys to go all out. Reigning a guy in is dumbing down. When your offense have 300 plays and they utilize 50 or 60 that's dumbing down. I HATE to bring up Erik Kramer but I have to to compare what Turner has to work with. Kramer succeeded with guys who had very good seasons in this prior offense. Guys who didn't achieve anything else without each other. Raymont Harris never rushed for 1,000 yards, Jeff Whatshisname and Curtis Conway never received for a 1,000 yards without Ron Turner. No QB ever threw for as many TDs or yards in a season than Kramer did with Ron Turner. Times don't change that much. It's still football. The guys they have under center and in the skilled positions should have achieved the same things because they all had equal talent. 2006 guys were equal in talent to 1995. Ron Turner's biggest liability is having Rex not work as hard as he should've. No where did you hear about him putting in extra time before this year. He never talked to anyone on the sideline before he was sat not even after he made a mistake. They knew or felt that he was a little fragile in the mental department and never tried to push him. After he sat down he came back and approached it like he should've. Griese starting ahead of him did wonders for his abilities. And I must've forgot what Orton did in the last few games because I really didn't see anything vastly different then what he was doing around the 8th or 9th game of 2005. His short passes were off and his long passes were floaters. I know some of you guys love Orton and that's your thing, but bringing up his college career to validate his pro career is narrow minded. A lot of guys play well in college and stink it up in the pros. Heisman trophies are given to the best player,right. How many of them succeed in the NFL? Usually the Heisman is the kiss of death especially for a QB. I know Orton never won the Heisman so don't read too much into that assessment. I'm just saying that college players aren't automatic pro bowlers or even 2nd stringers in the NFL. I'm not going to knock Orton for who he is now, but I'm saying that the BEARS really want Rex to win that position. Just like they want Benson to turn it around,Chris Williams to start at LT and for Leclaire to back up his offensive tackles rather than being a starting guard. I just feel that and I could be wrong but I read BS and misdirections very well.

position not possition

Kevin, I totally agree with you on Kreutz. He is a stud center and will continue to be one for the next few years arring injuries.

As for the rest of the line, I was ok with Williams being the #14 pick but after reading and learning more about him, he may turn out pretty darn good. He certainly comes in with the right attitude and requisite skills to be a good one for a long time.

Garza is OK, not great, Tait will be fine on the right side. I just don't know about left guard, Metcalf has been sometimes pretty good but not consistent. I would like to see some of the young guys come in and play at both guard spots, for at least a few games during the year to develop for 2009. Maybe a guy like Barton could be a great guard instead of an OK tackle because of speed issues. Adams may be another good one, who knows?

Overall I think the new O-line will be OK but not dominant.

fan55, I don't quite agree with you on your theory about when Orton plays, both safeties creep up, and this kills the running game, so this means Orton has a weak arm. Back during the 2005 season, when Orton started, Thomas Jones enjoyed his best season as a pro with 1335 yds for a 4.3 yd avg. Also during that season, Benson had a 4.1 yd avg. You say that is not a fair comparison, because the Bears o-line was better that season...well? This season when Orton got his three game stint, Adrian Peterson enjoyed two of his most productive games as a pro. On Dec 23 vs the Packers, Peterson had 30 carries for 102 yds a 3.4 yd avg, and on Dec 30 vs the Saints, 21 carries for 91 yds and a 4.3 yd avg. Also keep in mind, these were two of the Bears most productive games rushing wise this season, and with Orton under center. I've seen Orton make some throws that look like laser beams going across the field, I'm telling you the guy's got a gun for an arm. Once Orton gets settled in, if he gets the job, this guy will get a league wide reputation for haveing an arm GO BEARS!!

Brando, the o line and running game got slightly better as the season went on
so we did see an improvement in Rex when he came back from his benching and thats the same improvement we saw in Kyle

and about Orton having a weak arm....I don't know I just don't think you can say he has a strong arm

& hopefully we will know asap who our QB will be and whoever it is I wish them luck

Us fans wont know who the QB is probably the 3rd week or 4th week of Aug. Thats unless Rex trips over a pea sizes pepple and rips his MCL.

Brando, You made some good points. Rex is shaky on the short stuff and Orton is good from 0-30 yards out. The point I am trying to make is that in today's NFL you need to have a QB with a very strong arm ( as well as a very fast WR) because that is the only thing that will keep a defense honest. Orton gets way too much credit for that good year they had with him starting. If you remember that was the year that the defense stayed healthy. The defense was great and Kevin the reason Jones had some decent yards is because that was also the last year that the guys on the OL were working well together.
Half of the QB's in the league are comparable to Orton in arm strength. Rex is in the upper 1%. He has a knack for completing the 40-60 yard pass that just deflates a defense. I prefer the Bears to run the ball (killing the clock like crazy) and then surprise them by going deep rather than playing the west coast offense and throwing short crap and dinking all the time. The west coast offense is for QB's like Montana and Eli Manning, guys who can really throw that short pass and not make mistakes. When the Bears were at their worst the other team would put 10 men on the line and dare Chicago to throw. It was the worst and I don't want to see that again.

fan55, with Orton as our QB, the Bears will not be a total dink and dunk passing team. You might think this because Orton will check down, if the big play is not there, and remember the big play is not always going to be there. Orton displayed the ability to go deep at the end of the season, especially the Saints game. You make it sound like Orton cannot go deep, I think he can. Orton will get better with the deep ball with more time getting in sync with his receivers, and I noticed improvement as the games went on last season. Orton is safe with the ball and knows when to go deep and can, that is the type of QB Orton is, not just fire down field on every play, even when the big play is not there. I just like Orton's field vision, and the fact that Orton doesn't force a lot of balls is proof of this. Ron Turners offense is more effective with this type of QB anyways. Example, sometimes like on 1st down, if the Bears come out and go down field forceing the ball, and its incomplete, then its 2nd and 10, this is when the Bears offense gets in the most trouble. With a QB like Orton, who will not force it deep if the big play is not there, but will take the short pass, and the Bears will be in 2nd and 4-5, rather than 2nd and long. This will set the Bears offense up to be more productive, because its easier to convert 4-5 yds than 10, and this makes the Bears offense more effective, thus keeping the defense off the field longer and makeing the whole team better. Like you said, run first, hit em with a short pass, or go deep if the big play presents itself, but again, do not force it deep, and Orton does not, so many fans may think he is not willing to go deep. I think Orton can be the most effective QB for Turners offense. With a healthy defense, improvement from the running game, and a QB like Orton that is safe with the ball, but can make the big play if it is there, but at the same time not forceing it, and the Bears will be a playoff team GO BEARS!!

Kevin Armstead and fan55
we don't really have any solid proof as to if Orton has a strong arm or not
we can just look at the games and make a decision for ourselfs
I just havn't seen that he has a strong arm, so it makes me lean to the side that he doesn't

and Brando your right about how long we will have to wait (most likely) but lets not be immature
you should know injuries are not really the players fault especially the way they have happended to Rex

Rex leads Orton in all of the statistical categories including completion percentage, TD's, total yardage and Interceptions which will be Rex's demise if the INterceptions keep occurring as in the past.

I am for Rex the new and improved Rex, he has the talent to take a team to win the superbowl if only he can play smart football and not throw into coverage, taking the open play instead. Or taking a field goal when necessary rather than a turnover interception in the red zone.

I still believe in T Rex.

forget the both of 'em. Start the kid from southern illinois, harris.

Kevin Armstead

Dink and dunk is all Orton's game is. It is not smart play, it is all he can do. The long passes in the NO game were WAY OFF, and floated badly. If we want to be one dimensional, Orton is the way to go, and we can expect the later 90s season agian. Pound it up the middle, throw a hitch pass for a loss, pound it up the middle, PUNT.

Rob, I don't know what game you were watching on Dec 30th? But I remember a 19 yd strike to Mark Bradley for a td, and then the td pass to Hester, Orton hit him in stride, as Hester ran past all the defenders. If the pass would have floated, Hester could not have ran past the defenders like he did. Like I said, Orton can make the big play if its there to make, as demonstrated in the Saints game. Also Rob, dink and dunk is what Ron Turners offense is all about, its Ron Turners version of the west coast offense. Basically all the west coast offense is, is a bunch of short, high percentage passes, sat up by the running game. This offense can be very effective, especially with the right QB. Orton and Grossman have both shown the ability to make the big play, I just think Orton is a little safer with the ball than Rex. Also, I like Ortons ability to throw the short to intermediate passes better than Rex, and still make the big play if it is there. This is why I think Orton is a better fit in Turners offense. Don't get me wrong, I like Grossman, I mean when he is on, Grossman is simply awesome. My only concerns with Rex is durability, and consistency. The only question is, can Rex fix these problems? Like I said before, may the best QB win GO BEARS!!

I beleive that Rex would fit in another offense alot better then Turners. Lets say Rex was on the Lions, Cowboys, or the Saints last year. I say he might have had that break out year. Along with all the INTs that come with those Offensive scheems. Rex can be good but Rex just doesnt fit in this offense. Rex might just be the best back-up QB in the NFL 08 season???

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