For weeks on end Barack Obama had to address the storm of media coverage surrounding controversial comments made by his former pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
Meanwhile anti-Catholic comments made by another pastor, Rev. John Hagee, who supported John McCain, garnered a few headlines. Namely, he had referred to the Catholic Church as "the great whore."
Now McCain said he didn't agree with those comments but at first he didn't disavow Hagee. Finally he did on Thursday and he rejected the pastor’s endorsement.
That was after anti-Semitic comments surfaced that Hagee made in the late 1990s. He suggested God sent Adolf Hitler to help Jews reached the promised land.
This was just as offensive as Wright’s damning of America and saying the government created HIV “as a means of genocide against people of color.”
Obama didn’t disavow his pastor at first but they eventually parted ways. McCain also finally had the sense to reject Hagee and the support of Ohio megachurch pastor, Rod Parsley, who has called for eradicating the “false religion” of Islam.
Clearly, these pastors don’t speak for our likely presidential candidates.
So let’s move beyond “Pastor-gate,” and get back to the real issues that need to be addressed in this presidential campaign.
This blog brought to you by the Sun-Times editorial board (click on names to read bios):
I heartily agree that all political candidates should disavow their pastors and vice versa. Obama can disavow Wright for saying "God D--mn America, and Wright can disavow Obama for that gay guy who had to take a lie detector test. Then, John McCain can disavow Hagee for thinking Hitler was really giving Israel to the Jews, and Hagee can disavow McCain for being married to Anheuser Busch. Then, Rod Parsley can disavow Muslims for having a false religion, and Muslims will probably just like gag and beat him up, or behead him or something, and McCain can then disavow both of them. Hilary, on the other hand doesn't have a pastor to disavow, so maybe she can just disavow God, like he did to her husband. Romney could not disavow 'the elders' without losing a dozen wives, and Huckabee could not disavow his pastor, Chuck Norris, without fear of a sharp kick, and it didn't matter because the voters disavowed both. If George Bush disavowed his pastor, it wouldn't make much of a difference because its just some Methodist guy, and what do they know. If George Bush's pastor disavowed him, it would be the last time he would ever be asked to a wedding in Crawford, and the IRS would probably start paying more attention to his sermons than his congregates.
NOW YOU WHY THERE IS A SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE AND IT SHOULD REMAIN THAT WAY!
Sadly its not the same. Wright was Obama's pastor for years
even marrying him. Neither Hagee or pastor Rod Parsley
had such a diret connection with McCain to pretend otherwise
is not very honest
The difference.....McCain hasn't attended Hagee's church week after week for 20 years. Obama sat and listened to this stuff for 20 years.
Big differnece between Obama and McCain on this one. McCain didn't sit in the same church for 20 years listening to this pastor. In fact, he never once sat in a church through a service with him. Obama's pastor clearly hates the US and Israel and is very vocal in his views about it. Obama had no problem sitting listening to this hatred for years.
This endorsement is closer to the endorsement of Obama by the minister Farrakhan.
Not so fast -- nobody has yet called out Hillary Clinton for her spiritual advisor's outrageous statements. Doug Coe, whom she called "a genuinely loving spiritual mentor" apparently admires the Nazis for their fervent dedication. So give Hillary equal time here, or risk being called a sexist.
Religion is LOADED with hate, bigotry, and stupidity.
(Or is it "forbidden speech" to try to expose it?)
As offensive? Hardly. I am Jewish and I can say without hesitation that Wright's remarks were more deeply disturbing than Hagee's.
John McCain never took his family week after week to listen to Hagee or claimed he was like family. You may not agree but some of us actually do not like the thought of our President not leaving a place like that. It would be as much an issue if McCain attended Hagee's sermons as most would assume that he shared the values of the church he attended. President of the United States is too important to have any doubts about the true beliefs of a candidate.
I see so it is OK to seek the endorsement of somebody who says "America was founded for the purpose of exterminating Muslims and the false religion of Islam". But it is not OK to be inspired to become a Christian by a person who once said "American chickens have come home to roost" after 911.
OK, you want more of the same, vote McCain.
My vote is for Obama.
That you think an endorsement and twenty-year 'church' attendance as well as acknowledging the 'pastor' as spiritual advisor are equatable just shows your liberal bias.
This article glosses over a key point in an attempt to show an equivalence of embarrassment between the presumptive nominees. There is a substantive difference in the relationships between these pastors and the candidates associated with them. Senator Obama was a member of Mr. Wright's church for many years, listened to his sermons, and supported his church. On the other hand, Senator McCain was politically endorsed and supported by Mr. Hagee, but did not seek his spiritual guidance or patronize his congregation.
A political candidate's views and character may be more accurately discerned from their longstanding voluntary associations and memberships than from the statements issued by various supporters. If one were to be held liable for the offensive or distasteful comment of every person who has indicated support for them, every political figure in history would be guilty by association.
Very well put!
The mainstream media is always looking for some controversy to sell more newspapers/online ads. Pastor-gate is one of many ways to accomplish this. These "controversies" take attention away from the real issues facing the American people: skyrocketing healthcare costs, the Iraq war, soaring gas prices while oil companies rake in record profits quarter after quarter, laws written by the lobbyists rather than by the people who elected our politicians to SERVE us (NOT the lobbyists), and so on.
If someone's only child died fighting in Iraq, they need to get two jobs to pay their utility bills/gas up their car AND put food on the table, their jobs are being shipped overseas, and so many more things that really affect their daily life, do you think they give a DAMN if Obama wore a flag pin on his lapel at some random event? Does that affect their daily life?
NO!
News in this country needs to go back to the way it used to be, where the news division of a given media corporation was a public service, and often a money-losing proposition. There was no need to sensationalize the news to sell newspapers/sell ad time on air. News was reported, and if it wasn't "exciting" enough to compete with the latest celebrity train-wreck or (insert news fluff piece of whatever decade), well, at least it was still reported.
...amen, sister.
Who wrote this nonsense? Obama gets married by Rev. Wright, attends the church for twenty years and said he is my spiritual advisor. Then he compares his relationship with Rev. Wright to a maember of his family!
You want to compare this to McCain getting an endorsement from a man he barely knows?
What drivel!
Google editors should have more brains than to put this on thier site:(
Obama didn’t disavow his pastor at first but they eventually parted ways.
______________________________________________________
No they haven't parted way's.......amazing since Obama denounced Rev Wright...Wright crawled in a hole and hasn't come back out.
That was a set up denouncement between them.
Obama is still a member of Trinity Church where the currant pastor is identical to Wright.
You've got be kidding me...This is what you're proposing; that John McCain had a "preacher problem" with this guy Hagee. McCain NEVER attended the guys' church, let alone sat in his pews for 20 flipping years. I don't believe Hagee mentored, married and filled McCains' childrens' heads with hate and nonsense year in and year out. I don't believe McCain ever expressed any love of or allegiance to Hagee. He (Hagee)was just another potential political supporter on the rubber chicken circuit that is American politics. And finally, listen to Obamas' wife if you don't believe any of that crap stuck...and they allowed their children to be exposed to, and opinions' formed by, that self-defeating, victims' world view, for Baracks' political gain. Shame on them.
We've often wondered and then realized the focus condemning Obama for not wearing a lapel pin was just absolutely ridiculous. If the patriotism test boils down to a lapel pin then we've got alot of soul searching to do, because it shows the MSM has nothing to complain about or sensationalize. It would be a breath of fresh air to move beyond the pastors and useless symbolic gadgets.
http://www.bccmeteorites.com/misconduct-planetary.html
SRD
It's about time that the white conservative radical church heads be held to the same standard as the white/black liberal radical church heads.
Notice all this fury over pastors who pretend to be "Christian" and say they follow Christ when they do and say and get people to follow exactly the opposite of what Christ stood for.
What baloney! McCain did not sit under Hagee for 20 years, get married, or have his children baptized by him. This is not even close with regard to the lack of judgement shown by Obama. His poor judgement in this and other issues is important. You just wish it would go away. Meanwhile, I will console myself with my gun, my religion, and people like myself since I am upset with not having the economic situation I want. Not. More Obama crap!
The difference between the Hagee flap versus the Wright controversy is that McCain was not a member of Hagee's congregation, and therefore really could claim ignorance to Hagee's more outrageous ideology. Obama embraced Wright as his pastor for 15+ years, yet still tried to claim ignorance toward similar outrageous pulpit antics.
Now, as an atheist, I think dragging religion into politics and vice versa is the height of stupidity. That's just me. Yet I was not reared in an atheist home and heard many a bible-beating-hell-fire-and-damnation sermon on Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, etc., etc. I just happened to have more backbone and a bigger mouth than those next to me in the pews who disagreed and never spoke out against such ridiculous hate speech.
Americans need to worry less about the crazy, hate-mongering, separatist sects of religion. They (religions) are not doing a thing to solve problems in the real world - at least without hefty strings attached. Frankly, I think people need to remember that neither Hagee nor Wright will be on the ballot in November. The candidates rightly should step away from religion and remain focused on fixing those things the federal government has been charged with managing by the construct of our national government.
I agree to a certain extent. We all know that many Republicans are religious wingnuts. Of course the comments of both pastors are completely ludicrous and unfounded. That said, Hagee's comments didn't garner the same outrage as Wright's did. Why? Many wealthy families, including those of several Republican leaders', financially supported the Nazi party. And the same Republican extremists cannot fathom how anyone could be a follower of any religion besides Christianity. Regarding Wright's claim that the U.S. government created AIDS - there is no solid proof that that did or did not happen. Then again, some people believe that Oswald actually assassinated JFK.
How do you come up with the idea that there is anything anti-Semitic in Hagee's theology that God can use even evil people to accomplish His will and bring about blessing? After Joseph's brothers had sold him into slavery, he told them, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" (Genesis 50:20). How is this any different? Or are we supposed to believe in an impotent, weak god who cowers in the corner when the bad guys come on the scene? How much better to believe in a God who can take anything that is thrown at Him and use it to bring about ultimate blessing!
sad to say...
nobody cares
this is a dead story
with no politikal legs
Barack Obama's pastor isn't the problem. It's his religion - Black Liberation theology is a racist anti-white religion. It preaches hatred for all white people. Mr Obama has been a member of a religion for 20 years that is explicitly racist, and people seem to be overlooking this fact.
It would never have been an issue if the GOP hadn't used the evangelicals as political spokespersons and a GOTV mailing list.
Jeremiah Wright served six years in the United States Marine Corps with distinction, including serving personally at the side of President Johnson. His patriotism is beyond criticism, and he has earned the right to say anything he cares to. At no time did Obama cite Rev. Wright as a political ally.
Republicans, on the other hand...
I don’t know of any religions that don’t espouse hatred and violence, and I doubt you’ll find any religious leaders that haven’t spewed hatred from the pulpit. I’m afraid it’ll take at least another century or two before people give up this religious nonsense entirely. Until then we're stuck with this mess.
There is no true comparison between Rev. Wright's critique of practices of the U.S. government and the hateful comments made by these other pastors against gays, jews, the Catholic Church, Islam, etc. And these other pastors only received limited MSM attention after many complaints to the media that there was an unaccetable double standard being employed with respect to the media in terms of how Barack had been treated and how the other candidates had been given a media pass concerning their pastors, spiritual advisors and endorsers.
There is a bit of difference between Haggee and Wright
1) Sen. Obama is a 20 year member of Trinity United Church of Christ, where Rev. Wright was pastor. Sen McCain is not a member of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, where Rev. Hagee is the pastor.
2) Sen. Obama lives aproximately two miles north of of Trinity United Church of Christ. Sen. McCain lives approximately 1000 miles west of the Cornerstone Church.
3) Sen. Obama donated at least $20,000 to the Trinity United Church of Christ. Sen. McCain did not donate to the Cornerstone Church.
4) Sen. Obama married his wife Michelle in a ceremony led by Rev. Wright. Neither of Sen. McCain’s marriages were performed by Rev. Hagee
5) Sen. Obama’s daughters were baptized by Rev. Wright. None of Sen. McCains’s children were baptized by Rev. Hagee.
6) Sen. Obama has referred to Rev. Wright as his spiritual guide. Sen. McCain has not mentioned the identity of his spiritual guide.
7) Sen. Obama stated the impossibility of denying his relationship with Rev. Wright. Two weeks later Sen. Obama ended his relationship with Rev. Wright. Sen. McCain could not match that.
8) Rev. Wright kept up his media campaign of controversial rhetoric in the name of religion.
9) Rev. Hagee ceased his controversial preaching, and apologized to one of the stalwarts of the Catholic Civil Rights Movement, Bill Donohue of the Catholic League.
10) Rev. Wright shows no signs of apologizing.
JBP
Okay let's put the pastors aside for now and go with Lobbyists. Obama was hard pressed on getting McCain to fire a couple of lobbyists that worked for his campaign. But what about Obama's campaign? Should they not receive the same scrutiny?
Obama's Fundraising Team Includes 38 Members Of Law Firms That Engage In Federal Lobbying. "Barack Obama often boasts he is 'the only candidate who isn't taking a dime from Washington lobbyists,' yet his fundraising team includes 38 members of law firms that were paid $138 million last year to lobby the federal government, records show." (Ken Dilanian, "Obama Has Ties To Lobbyists Despite Boasts Of Not Taking Their Money," USA Today, 4/16/08)
"Thirty-One Of The 38 Are Law Firm Partners, Who Typically Receive A Share Of Their Firms' Lobbying Fees. At Least Six Of Them Have Some Managerial Authority Over Lobbyists." (Ken Dilanian, "Obama Has Ties To Lobbyists Despite Boasts Of Not Taking Their Money," USA Today, 4/16/08)
Campaign Finance Institute's Michael Malbin: "It makes no difference whether the person is a registered lobbyist or the partner of a registered lobbyist, if the person is raising money to get access or curry favor." (Ken Dilanian, "Obama Has Ties To Lobbyists Despite Boasts Of Not Taking Their Money," USA Today, 4/16/08)
If Obama Attacks On Former Lobbyists, Why Does He Continue To Use Them To Raise Hundreds Of Thousands Of Dollars For His Campaign?
Obama Uses Bundlers Who Were Previously Registered As Federal Lobbyists. "Obama now has 14 bundlers who are also federally registered lobbyists, but they are currently inactive, according to Public Citizen." (Christopher Beam, "Obama's Lobbying Ties," Slate's "Trailhead" Blog, www.slate.com, 5/19/08)
Obama's Former Lobbyist Bundlers: Timothy M. Broas, Frank Clark, Howard W. Gutman, Scott Harris, Allan J. Katz, William T. Lake, Robert S. Litt, Kenneth G. Lore, Thomas J. Perrelli, Thomas A. Reed, Paul N. Roth, Alan Solomont, Robert M. Sussman And Tom E. Wheeler. (Public Citizen Website, www.whitehouseforsale.org, Accessed 5/21/08)
If Obama Is So Concerned About The Influence Of Lobbyists, Why Did He Play In A Regular Poker Game With Them While Serving In The Illinois State Senate?
While In The Illinois State Senate, Obama Played In A Weekly Poker Game With Lobbyists. "Lawmakers and lobbyists, Democrats and Republicans alike, would put their politics on hold and gather for ... their weekly poker game. It was a chance for Obama, then an Illinois state lawmaker, to socialize over cards and cigars (or, in his case, cigarettes)." (Sharon Cohen, "Barack Obama: A Pragmatist Who Learned To Adapt To Different Worlds," The Associated Press, 12/17/07)
"[Obama] Played Poker With Lobbyists, Studiously Took Up Golf. ('An Awful Lot Happens On The Golf Course,' A Friend, Jean Rudd, Says He Told Her.)" (Janny Scott, "In Illinois, Obama Proved Pragmatic And Shrewd," The New York Times, 7/30/07)
PDF Format
I just cannot believe that the american people believe in Obama, what has he really done. There were many people that thought Hitler would bring change, Stalin would bring change and they did. Do we really want a radical change. I am really disheartened by our chicago newspapers for backing him and never printing anything negative and leading the american people down the wrong road to make a buck for themselves. PEOPLE THIS NEEDS TO STOP, START THINKING AND REALIZE OBAMA IS NOT FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN.
Lumping these pastor issues together as if they are the same is disingenuous. Barack knew Wright personally and had a long-term relationship with this man and clearly knew about his hate speeches. McCain had no such relationship with Hagee or Parsley. I do think it is nuts to expect both these candidates to constantly have to look closely at each person that supports them. Supporters can and do represent all sorts of people that frequently do not share the values on all issues of those they support.
Let he/she who is without sin (i.e. imperfect) cast the first stone. Where were all the conservative Catholics for all those years during the priest abuse scandal? Where are they today as they are so quick to criticize Sen. Obama? The abuse scandal was swept under the rug until forced to clean house when there was no choice but to do so. Why did it take the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (aka Pope Benedict XVI)so long to not speak out against it until his recent visit to the USA?
McCain's relationship with Hagee is analogous not to Obama's relationship with Wright but to Obama's relationship with Louis Farrakhan, whom Obama did not reject (however glibly) until he was embarrassed into it in a debate.
Question. What in the Hell does a pastor have to do with charting the course on Americans Lives and the Economic fiasco brought upon us by Bush and all those that supported him and and his Bull Corn?
The real issue is are you voting and for whom? of course we know who you are voting for...that's why we are in the bog pit now.
Why aren't we disturbed with Fr. Flaeger? Isn't he suppose to be a Roman Catholic Pastor of a parish? Why is he so anti white? Did anyone actually hear his voice when he was speaking in an all black church? He was putting a draw in his voice trying to sound black.
Is this what roman catholic preists are suppose to be doing, or is he auditioning for Al Sharpton?
Fr. Flaeger, do the job you are suppose to do, and let the activists do theirs.
Obama has been a close friend of Pfleger for 20+ years and has called him "one of my four spiritual mentors"!!
Obama has also given Pfleger's church $100K in tax payer's money as an Obama pork barrel earmark!!!
Obama is judged by who his friends are and they are very hateful people indeed!!!
Since when did what a presidential candidate's EX preacher says start to matter? When did it matter whether the candidate wears a flag lapel pin or not? When does what a candidate's wife says matter? When does what a guest speaker at Trinity (Pfleger)says matter? When that candidate is Black, close to being elected president, and you can't find real ISSUES to defeat him on. Does anybody even know who George Bush's minister is? No!! Wake me up when this country gets over its bigotry.
Typical of Mr. Obama's pork barrel earmarks was a $100,000 grant for a youth center at a Catholic church run by the Rev. Michael Pfleger, a controversial priest who was one of the few South Side clergymen to back Mr. Obama against [Rep. Bobby] Rush.
Obama and Pfleger have been buddies for 20+ years!! Obama is a political hack and grifter.
My comment has to do with the most recent pastor-gate...Father Pfleger's comments at Trinity church last Sunday...
If the secret service/media people would stop coming into Trinity to dissect every word from the pulpit it would be a good thing. Because there is and should be a separation of church and state I am incensed that Trinity's worship services are being invaded by the secret media with recording devices in their lapels. It is wrong and invasive.
There were sacred conversations regarding race from the pulpit all three services last Sunday at Trinity and only what Father Pfleger said at 6pm hit the media...I find that curious but not unexpected when it comes to the media.
As far as what Father Pfleger said last Sunday, I found everything he said to be true and hilariously funny. The voice of the church will not be muzzled because of a campaign and truth will always prevail. After all, this is AMERICA and there is such a thing as freedom of speech. Go away media and leave us alone!!! God Bless Trinity church, America, the land I love, Father Pfleger, Jeremiah Wright, Otis Moss and Barack Obama....
Rev. Michael Flegler should be sanctioned by the Catholic Church, the Archdiocese of Chicago, the newspapers etc. in Chicago. He is a disgrace and I am afraid also a little crazy. Since when do people like this represent the American People? Obama you are going to lose if they keep up with this nonsense.
Why in the world would Rev Michael Pfleger go to the Rev Wright's former church and give such an inflammatory sermon? He knows that every word spoken from that pulpit is being recorded and will be on the airways and used once again against Senator Barack Obama. I can't even imagine what he was thinking. Of course now he has apologized but that certainly doesn't help and makes me think that he just wanted to get on the national news like Rev Wright. I am totally disgusted with the kind of so called religion these guys are preaching. It is certainly creating a horrible view of these ministers and the Trinity Church United Church of Christ. Will you please just shut up!!
Father Pflager is the one that most concerns me. Here is a man who is truly conflicted. He is a racist who obviously hates whites and women. How can he possibly look in the mirror? Yet, this is a man of God, filled with hate and venom. How interesting that the God he professes a belief in would be repulsed and horrifed by his actions and words. Jesus was filled with love and tolerance; something both Pflager and Wright don't seem to know. Both men should be ashamed of their unChristian behavior. My concern as to how this related to Senator Obama. I am concerned about his judgement. I do not think he is a racist person, but I have my doubts about his wife. I don't think that we have a very good selection for this election, I may not vote for the first time in my life.
I am less concerned about Pflagers damage to Obama's campaign than the black eye he gives the Catholic Church. The Church doesn't need any bad publicity from a radical leftist who has often been at odds with Church's Teaching Authority.
As far as Obama is concerned, it's phoney of him to disavow statements of his many erstwile friends. When one sees and hears the arm waving and cheering at his church, he apperently would have us believe he is the only member who disagrees with the sermons given there.
If America elects this character as president, we will have a philosophical enemy of our country as its leader. This guy is so extreme, he makes Hillary's socialism appear mainstream.
What kind of a Church is Trinity United Church Of Christ? I consider
my Church as God's Home, a place to worship Him and to pray. And I
expect to hear sermons about love, reaching for goodness in ourselves, forgiveness; good things. Does anyone suspect that
Rev. Wright and his best friend Father Pflager might be secret
Republicans, trying to destroy Sen. Obama? If they think they are
helping him they are truly stupid. I voted for Sen. Obama in our
primaries, but if he is on the ticket this fall, and Mickey Mouse
is his opponent, yes...Mickey gets my vote.
Father Pflager is a "wanna be". He is ashamed of his own race and does whatever he can to curry favor with his black flock. I am a Catholic, attend Mass frequently, and do not hear my pastor use cuss words, endorse political candidates or denigrate people of other races. Most people of goodwill attend Church to worship God not to rehash past injustices and foment hatred of others. Father Pflager's performance was a disgrace. If he was my Pastor, I would find another church.
I feel that it all comes down to one thing, Obama believes in christianity, not in Reverend Wright. At least in the 21st century, we all should focus on our beliefs, faiths, or ideological thinking rather then the men (or in some cases, women), who represent the minister, rabbi, ahman, monk or leader. For those of us who can read, we can all make our own decisions of what we believe. So Reverend Wright or Reverend Michael Pfleger, or any other faith-based teacher, speaker, or minister speaks for themselves and not neccessarily for anything else.
Poor Michael Pfleger. Now that he has once again spit on white people all over the country, including the millions that voted for Obama, he wants to cry that he is being threatened and he is the victim once again.
If Cardinal George and the Catholic Church did not already ignore their truly offensive bunch of lackeys then I would expect him to remove this clown from his position.
For some reason I don't see this happening and Pfleger will get a free pass from Al Sharpton and the usual suspects because he is preaching the brand of hate that they approve of.
Listen all, please. This thing about the pastor gate is a political gimmick planned from the beginning. Senator Obama knows that he will be questioned of his church membership, via the Farrakhan debacle, etc. So from the start he covered his ground to avoid a swift boat episode. He is surely the most cunning candidate around.Good Luck Citizens of our country!
I just read the quick comments that Fr. Pflager expressed during his sermon today. The 1.5 min on YouTube that we all saw of Fr. Pflager was a true representation of himself, no one else was speaking for him. As a Roman Catholic I truly hope you decide to resign and leave the priesthood. You are a poor resentation of the Catholic Church, and you have personally humilated people of all races. Your comments and actions were a true representation of the devil at work. You are not a choosen one of God. Please leave.
Is he for real? He is a member of the biggest "men's club" in the world. I truly believe he is not a racist but I find it impossible to believe that he is not a closeted misogynist. Or perhaps he is working for the Clinton campaign? Hugh Hefner and Pfleger have a lot in common, women should kneel, be submissive, and learn to Dip?? As a women, and a former catholic (I was completly turned off in 3rd grade after seeing all neighbors and classmates screaming hate during the 1960's race marchs and this never being addressed at mass or in school, St.Stanilaus BM) I am insulted but not surprised.
0
As America stands in terrible shape, due to the policies of the present administration, we are lobbing back and forth things said by people who are not on the ballot.
We seem to hold some politicians above the fray and hold others feet to the fire.
At tne beginning of this campaign, the candidates signed a pledge to obey the rules set forth by the DNC. Now as the campaign winds down, one candidate talks about the princple of the decision made by the DNC. What principles if you can change things when they are not going your way. We seem to overlook the persons surrounding one candidate, both personal, that husband and his antics for the past thirty years...questions about income, no real indication of religious committment, tenious ties to shady fundraisers, no real answers on issues, only whining about the unfairness of their treatment. They seem to believe that people who do not look look them are not really hard working Americans unless they are Hispanics who can be politically useful.
After all this time we still do not have any candidates who will be able to change what is wrong in our country.
Things that have nothing to do with hands over heart or flag pins or pastors, or unfaithful mates or experience, or age or military service!
Face it we are in trouble and seem to be unable to understand that we have not allowed for real discourse on the important issues or sought real people to try and solve them. I am sorely afraid that we will continue to get what we have always gotten and the sun will continue to set on America the great.
I didn't know you couldn't be president if you were a racist. Hmmmm..... then how the heck did Reagan get elected? Oh yeah, I forgot. That's one the REASONS he was elected. He must have learned all that racism stuff from his pastor. I don't think Hillary is a racist but, she should not be using lines from the Reagan play book.
Pleger; misogynist but not racist; blacks and browns are a minority;. women are 50% or more so its OK to discriminate and demean, and mock.
Compromising is not an option when it comes to seperation of church and state , as with our right to bear arms.....just a couple of things that keep us free.
Pfleger's so-called apology struck me as 'anything but' in his rebellious, sound-bite conscious wording. Furthermore, to say that the past week has been harder than his foster son's murder was truly disturbing -- pride before his son's humanity and parenthood apparently?
Why do these high profile preachers balk at a 'segment' of their words being problematic? That somehow they were taken out of context? They weren't. We saw the start of that speech and the leadup to the ultimate problematic words. How disengenuous. As a Catholic, I was disturbed to see him in priestly vestments on a Church altar, in self-righteous activism mode. Where is the Gospel and homily? The Archdiocese of Chicago again thinks talking to him for the umpteenth time about appropriate conduct is the right response. It is not. Priest-shortage or not, strong congregation or not, he must be removed from parish service and the pulpit, and possibly the priesthood.
"Well, I for one, salute this bold fearless and confident pastor for saying what’s in the minds of millions of Americans."
- Najee Ali on www.urbanthoughtcollective.com
I can't get the picture out of my mind. It was deeply disturbing.
The picture is the one where a preacher is delivering a hate-filled, anti-white racist rant while members of the congregation cheer wildly and applaud their affirmation of a vehement hatred of white people -- just because they are white.
Barack Obama quit that church, but he said he would not denounce it. That means he approves of the hate-all-white-people philosophy of the church he's attended all of his adult life, since he was in his early 20's.
Now we finally know who this political newcomer, Barack Obama, is. He is the exact opposite of the uniter he claims to be.
Dr King must be turning over in his grave. Apparently the first black presidential candidate never heard Dr King's admonition to judge people not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
America is being torn apart by the Democrat party's black against white campaign. That's not what this country is about and it saddens me.
Birds of a feather flock together. You will be known and judged by the company you keep.
i'm sorry, but you have to be a complete, idiot, or completely brainwashed by the liberal media to believe that what your spiritual advisor has to say does not represent what a candidate believes. I'm sorry, why would you go to that person then for SPIRITUAL ADVICE? Rev. Wright's comments were only damning to the people who believe that America is truly a democratic, peaceful, superpower of a society. New's flash, it's not. We have killed over one million iraqi's, over 4000 US soldiers, and God knows 99.9% of them were innocent of any crime. We oppress, women, people of color, people of different religious beliefs, and anyone who speaks against the liberal media, or those in power. Shame on you John McCain, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama. Obviously, no change will come from any of these candidates whether they are black or white.
The membership of Trinity has grown because of the truth preached there from Pastor Wright and ministers from many denominations. The shock to other cultures, is that we not only teach love for other races but ourselves. In the extensive coverage of our church what is missed is the diverse congregation. People from all walks of life. I invite bloggers to spend less time on the blog and sometime reading the Bible and a little history. The New Testament of the Bible will confirm if read in entirety, that Jesus preached social justice, got angry, and even called people out of their names from time to time. Jesus often chastised the Pharissees for their hypocrisy and tore up the temple when angered. He preached about love and healing but also told disciples to "shake the dust off their feet," meaning to walk away from non-believers. Also, history will teach you that the abolisionist movement and civil rights movements were born in the Negro/Black/African-American church. It is no accident that the leaders of these movements were black ministers and participants were Jewish people, white evangelist, and Catholic clergy/nuns. Our beloved Martin Luther King has been mischaractarized as a docile, hand holding preacher who was loved by everyone. That is far from the truth - he also spoke harshly about the war and how America has treated those in the African-American race. He was also hated by politicians, preachers, white, and black at the time he was fighting for civil rights - hence he was assasinated - he didn't slip and fall in his kitchen. Rev. Wright and Father Pleghar preach more love than any of you can imagine. They love at their own expense when fighting for equality and elimination of systemic racism. They tell the truth when voicing what most African-Americans believe and experience in our schools and work places. I compare us to the family where one child is favored over another. In that scenario the favored child never recognizes the favor - they just wonder what the unfavored child is complaining about.
I feel that the two men in question are being attacked because they are supporters of Mr. Obama. When one's pastor stands behind that sacred desk, he must speak about issues that have already been talked about long before in the bible. I also feel that what they have said cannot be thrown at Mr. Obama's feet and he be held accountable for what they have said. My problem is that although sexism has been an issue, most of the admonishments and reprimands have been sent to Mr. Obama, a Black man. The issue of race has always been a problem for most Americans; whites as well as lacks. I know Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and have heard Father Michael Pfleger many times. If their individual sermons were listened to in their entirety, then people might not look at these men as monsters. They are just taking the cover off of the dirty laundry of racism. I did not see any of that same kind of passion when Mr. McCain had issues with Rev. Hagee. I have seen Rev. Hagee on several occasions talk about America as if it were a stepchild. They brought up things he said years ago. I did not see the media go after Mr. McCain as they did Mr. Obama. It was in the media for a day or two and then - poof! it vanished. I think the real problem is that although America says that race is not an issue anymore, it really is, but it is undercover. It is deeply rooted underneath all of the false acceptance that we as African Americans are supposed to just accept. A lot of media personnel and most Americans have to look at whether they are truly "color blind" or whether it is a "put on". Men of the cloth are to do one thing; preach the unadulterated gospel! I can say that and stand firm on it, due to the fact that I am married to a preacher. If he says something that I do not agree with, but it is in the bible, he will be held accountable. Whether it is racism, sexism, poverty, hunger, if something is not lining up with what the bile says, they must address it. These men must be able to do their job without being placed under a microscope every time they state facts that may not be popular.
I've listened to both Fr. Pfleger's sermon and the Jeremiah Wright GD America sermon (I suspect most of the bloggers here and on other sites have NOT taken the time to do so - instead choosing to be manipulated by the media cartel through sound bites) and fail to see the so-called hatred in either. To the former, Fr. Pfleger simply offered up his opinion as to why Sen. Clinton has persisted in her bid for the nomination, even though (despite the media cartel's attempt to influence us to the contrary) it has been clear for three months that she had no mathematical path to the nomination short of forcing the reinstatement of invalid primary results in Florida and Michigan. What was this "fighter's determination" of her's borne of? I think Fr. Pfleger was dead on in his assertion that Sen. Clinton is suffering from an "entitlement syndrome". Let's introduce some statistical analysis into the discussion: According to Sen. Clinton, her staying in the race was borne of the belief that she is the most electable candidate (based on returns in many, but not all of the large democratic stronghold states). Let's examine her margins of victory in those states vs. her four week-out polling numbers in the same: OHIO 9% victory 22% poll lead four weeks out, PENN 10% victory 18% poll lead, CAL 12% victory, 26% poll lead, TEX 3% victory (in primary, 5% loss in caucus portion) 20% poll lead. Statistical analysis bears out that in spite of her built-in advantage of name recognition coming out of the starting gate (reflected in the large polling leads she held), her leads were trimmed significantly once Sen. Obama began to campaign actively in those states - resulting in far less impressive vote returns for Sen. Clinton. When combined with the fact that there is little substantive difference between the candidates platform's, this, in an unbiased manner, effectively thwarts Sen. Clinton's claims of better electability - leaving only the options of spite or a hope for racial bias on the part of white Americans for remaining in the race - neither of which is very "presidential" of her. Pfleger's opining on this is neither hateful nor sexist - as has been expressed.
To the matter of Jeremiah Wright, the notion of American hatred on his part is a media cartel concoction and has taken root because of the biblical ignorance of many so-called Christians in this country - as evidenced by the may blogs on this site questioning Wright's Christianity. Wright's GD America statement must be viewed thru thr prism of biblical hermeneutics - that is the application/parallel of biblical-time truths to modern times. In his sermon, Wright was comparing the socio-economic/political climate in modern-day America to that which existed in biblical-time middle east. I recommend reading the entire book of Ezekiel. In it, GOD judges (or damns) the nations for substituting their will for the will of GOD or paralleling Wright's message to modern-day America - pretending like she is GOD and is supreme.
It is my hope moving forward that this discussion (and the larger discussions of race, religion, and politics) can take on a less emotional, less latently racist, more informed tone. Sound bites are a dangerous thing when not filtered through sound, informed insight.
Fred Bass, you say that some pastor that endorsed McCain said: "America was founded for the purpose of exterminating Muslims and the false religion of Islam". Didn't John McCain specifically denounce Rod Parsely for saying this? Did John McCain ever describe Parsely as "member of his family" and a "spritual mentor." Finally, did John McCain attend Parsely (or for that matter, Haggee's) church for 20+ years? The level of association and intimacy with these fools is just not the same here and that is a fact that Obama will have to address in the general election.
You also say "But it is not OK to be inspired to become a Christian by a person who once said 'American chickens have come home to roost' after 911." If that was ALL that Wright had said, I don't think Obama would have thrown both Wright, TUCC and now, Pfleger under the bus, do you? Or perhaps you also believe, like Wright and apparently many TUCC attendees, that the US government created AIDS to kill blacks and that "whitey" is the cause of ALL problems in the black community?
I like Obama and I was a very early supporter of his (I still get about 5 e-mails a day from his team) but I am VERY concerned about Obama's judgement simply because he sat in the pews of this church for 20+ years. After seeing the exultant celebration by many TUCC members at Pfleger's racist and insulting comments, I am afraid that Obama is starting to look like the Wizard of Oz and someone just pulled back the curtain. His rhetoric and his actions seem to be in complete contradiction to each other. Haven't we had enough of politicians who say one thing and then do another?
I can't believe the way the media tries to make comparisons. How intellectually dishonest can they possibly be? There is absolutely no true connection between McCain, Hagee and Parsley. There is a twenty year relationship between Obama, Pfleger, Wright and Farakhan! I guess I know why people both hate and distrust the media!
There is nothing one can say about Obama that will force the Kool-Aid drinkers to stop drinking. Every time something is said about Obama, their only reply is "what about McCain",such a childish response. I can't wait until these bumper sticker children are finally exposed to the real Barack Hussein Obama.
Not the comments of his pastors, friends or wife, but his own words and actions. The names Rezmar, Blackwell, Davis, Meeks, and what he did to his political mentor, Alice Palmer, is shameful!
We are in America Right?? I grew up in Chicago, attended St.Helena's of the Cross and Mendel Catholic Prep. Baptised a Catholic 44 years ago, but as I began to read more and more of the history of the church it caused me great pain. Whether one agrees or not with the Rev. Pfleger he has a First Amendment Right of free speech. We ask for Priest and Nuns to commit themselves to the church by giving up many things. This reminds me of the movie AMEN. That statement of " WHAT WOULD JESUS DO". During the Civil Rights Movement many Priest and Nuns marched on Washington for " CHANGE", they were punished by the leaders of the church for doing so. The Catholic church wants to know why people are moving towards other churches this is why. I might or might not agree with the Priest, but what makes me proud is that we are Americans and we have the right to express our differences with respect and dignity towards our fellow man. If a Priest or Nun cannot express their thoughts without worrying about what will happen to them, will they loose their pension or be removed from what they love the most, is this really what Jesus was about?
I understand there are alot of people in this country that don't believe in or how Fr. Pfleger expressed is views on the current election. But, I do not feel that he is being treated in the correct manor. The Catholic church is not consistant in their views of the preist within their church. You have priest that have molested young boys who have not been purnished in anyway, but Fr. Pfleger has a polictical opinion and he is suspended. I believe mulesting a young boy is much more offensive than the polictical opinions of Fr. Pfleger.
You have a child or children. They were born white. You are going to vote for Obama? Both his black pastor "uncle" and white "reverend" Pfleger hate,detest,loathe white people. So, go ahead and vote for Obama and just think about all that hate he has sucked up over 20 years because your children and you are and were born white.
It is really disturbing to see that many white voters cling
to trivial issues when the matter of race is on the table.Rather
than acknowledge the truth of a topic, often the excuse hatch
opens, and the bail out takes place, but it isn't due to racism.
In 1983, lifelong Chicago Democrats chose to vote for a
Republican, with a history of mental illness, rather than vote
for Harold Washington, but racism was denied. At least in
Pennsylvania, when Governor Rendell said no white man in that
state would vote for a black candidate, the truth was confronted.
It is nearly two hundred years past slavery, and this
country has a chance to grow beyond its'negative legacy,if its'
voters finally get past the point of unrealistic denial in the face
of truth. The fact that we're stuck with the situation we find
ourslves in, is a result of pretending to believe the present
administration was doing things right, and we knew they weren't.
To continue avoiding the truth, and cutting off our noses to
spite our faces, due to racial concerns, is suicide for us all.
anyone who thinks that you are not influenced by friends, family and "close advisors" are simply deluding them selves. We are half way to handing our country over to radicals and doing so to "prove we are not racist and it is "time" for a black president" Actually I think it may be time for a black president, but NOT this person because he happens to be black.
Dr. Jeremiah Wright, Father Mike, Pastor Hagee, and Pastor Parsley are not running for public office. These men are preachers in a country whose laws maintain a strict separation of church and state. Thus, our candidates running for public office, be they church members or just good buddies of these men, are not accountable to the voters for anything these men believe and preach.
In this nation founded on freedom of religion, beyond their congregants, who really cares what these men preach or think?
We are not looking at the big picture here. Most of the people who have written about Pastor Wright has only heard the sound bites of that one particular , infamous sermon. They don't know that he served in the military, I believe it was the marines, he campaigned with Hillary for Bill Clinton and numerous other kind acts to all different nationalities. You don't know what he has spoken about for 20 years. You probaly haven't attended his church. You only know the sensationalized versions of his sermons. The stuff that sells papers. If all of us were judged by every negative thing we said throughout our lifetimes, the WhOLE world would be judged demons and hate mongers. We all have cracked racial slur jokes amongst ourselves, we all have uttered something nasty about someone at some time or another as we all have done and said good things at one time or another, but these things don't sell ratings or newspapers. BE REAL with yourselves.
Obama doesn't even know how to get to God (his admission) so I have to ask, did Rev. Wright EVER preach from the Bible? It's not like the way isn't in there so how can anybody call him a 'Christian?' And there is a huge difference between Obama's pastor and mentor of 20 years, a church he was a member of, verses McCain who has no affiliation whatsoever with Hagee or his particular view of the Word. It's apples and oranges. In all my 35 some odd years of attending churches - different denominations - I have never, ever heard anything remotely like what Wright spews. If anything is racist in this world, that is and does not belong in a house of God. They should have their tax exemption removed as it is obviously a politically charged institution. Funny, too, how Wright was retiring so supposedly that would put everything to rest but the second Obama got the nod, he doesn't. hmmm. Interesting, don't you think? Even his church is questioning it.
Tim Wise is a white male voice that tries to add the correct context to the comments of Jeremiah Wright. Taken out of context they sound terrible. Taken in context they sound reasonable and not extreme. Tim Wise adds the context that most white americans don't want to know or understand.
We shouldn't be slamming Wright or Hagee. We should be trying to education or entire nation on how we can all understand each other, and truly have the diverse nation that is our ideal.
Can we just blame the media and journalists at large? It takes proper crafting of intelligent questions to get to the bottom line on some things. My guess is dentists-posing-as-journalists are following Obama, with the love fest going on for that empty suit. But then again,what we take down the aisle may not be what we wake up with in bed "the morning after". Obama is just another political "trophy wife" in my mind. Looks good, but too much plastic. So much being churned out regarding these candidates which is of no importance, makes the whole thing irrelevent reading as far as I am concerned. I just don't give a damn if Barack and Michelle did a "fist bump". I will look at the voting records in place and be done with it.
Tammy Swofford
It AMAZES me how everyone--Black and White--seem to have some high-handed, self righteous viewpoint on Obama, Rev Wright and Father Pfleger. But there are some issues people keep missing:
1. Our FF wanted a clear separation of Church & State for a reason. Religion really has no place in politics...its a personal, private thing. Other than answering YES or NO to the religious faith question, everything else is NOBODY'S DAMN BUSINESS.
2. For all those who criticize Obama for being w/Trinity for 20y, SHAME ON YOU!! The good works & long standing legacy of that church and Rev Wright should NOT be destroyed over 30sec of video. That issue aside, every minute someone somewhere is making an inappropriate remark--sexual, cultural, political, etc--in a classroom, conference room, and YES even in a CHURCH. But do you see people walking out of schools, jobs and churches over this? HAVE YOU PERSONALLY? NO! Because we have all learned early on that if we take offense to every little thing that's said, we'd never get anything done. If you're going to attack Obama over Wright, then you better start cornering our Catholic Senators over their failure to investigate pedophile priests, which is far, far worse.
3. And aside from Rev Wright's AIDS claims, what PART of his remarks were not true? No need to shoot the messenger because you don't like the message. The US DID cheat the Native Americans out of their land, build this country on the backs of African slaves, imprison Japanese during WWII, use the BOMB, experiment on our own military and blacks w/o their knowledge, among a number of other things. Given the thins we've done in our short 200+ yr history, we have no right to attack others for their sins...pot meet kettle.
4. This whole Obama/Wright/Pfleger, McCain/Hagee/Parsley thing speaks to a much BIGGER issue. As we analyze, discuss and attack each candidate on their religious/spiritual associations, we are going down a slippery slope here. How would YOU feel if your child's admission to school/college, your chances to get a job, a home, a loan, or healthcare was in jeopardy because of the CHURCH you went to, or because of what your PASTOR said? What if it was dependent upon your defense of people you KNEW, or something YOU might have said? Let's be real, none of us hasn't said or done something that someone SOMEWHERE wouldn't view as inappropriate, or demand explanation. All of us know of at least 1 friend or family member that probably WOULD NOT pass vetting, if the situation arose. Seems absurd? Then imagine how these candidates feel. Once again, pot meet kettle.
I believe that once the campaigning is over, and Barack has received his national drubbing at the polls, the Obamas will once again be fixtures at TUCC.